WITH TIME STAMPS AND SPEAKER IDENTIFICATION

Source video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5izZFAV0QQ

  • GenCon TV Host: Derek Guder (DEREK) - GenCon

Speakers (clockwise from top left):

  1. Hawke Robinson (HAWKE): "Grandfather of Therapeutic Gaming" founder and Executive Director of the non-profit RPG Research www.rpgresearch.com and President of the for-profit RPG Therapeutics LLC www.rpg.llc.
  2. ...
  3. ...
  4. ...




Raw Transcript with Timestamps:

ood morning and welcome to table tix presented by Gen Con we are here live at

3:46

the convention I am Christian I'm joined today by Banzai Derrick and Emma we've

3:51

got some special guests that a lot of stuff to talk about so let's get going if we can how's everybody doing first

3:58

good con so far I mean we do the craziest anybody has anybody gotten any

4:03

sleep yep but some you'll have to tell me how that went I'm not sure I've even

4:09

laid my head down yet which is why my hair is still perfect so uh we're gonna

4:15

start off to do with a guest that we've got a hawk Robinson with us today hockey is a part of a RPG research and the

4:24

president of some founder of RPG research president of RPG therapeutics

4:29

nonprofit and for-profit he's been called by many the grandfather of therapeutic gaming although he doesn't

4:36

look old enough to be a grandfather tell him my boys no hurry and you've been

4:41

working on a new project that we actually we've been talking about it before we even knew you were doing it oh

4:46

yeah okay well first of all I'm not doing it I'm supporting it and my advisor for it and it's a documentary on

4:53

role-playing games in prison which yeah we spoke about this a few weeks ago before we even knew that this folk

5:00

existed oh and oh really yeah yeah basically I've been both of us have been

5:06

very interested on how like RPGs affect people from different backgrounds and also how it betters people to like take

5:13

them out of their situation and then apply it to like a fictional person that they can learn to improve from and also

5:19

it's just like it's a nice escape it's like I'm almost a meditative kind of thing and the it was funny because the

5:25

conversation actually was like I think it came up in a news article we were ashamed because we try to figure out what to cover each week in our weekly

5:31

show so we have we're here every week not a drinker not a we're we should

5:38

cover this and like both Banzai and and Christian were really like excited about the topic so they're gonna like go into

5:45

research and like yeah like why don't you spend some time figuring that out next week he comes back he's like alright so I think I haven't in you know

5:56

I know it's funny because the reason

6:02

that became initially interested in this kind of research is because of meeting you years ago like back in 2009 and

6:09

right what you were yeah I was against it at spoke on I think right well and

6:15

you guys were doing also you may be that was later you and Scott were at some coffee shop doing riffing and stuff oh

6:20

yeah yeah yes but yeah yeah I think it was because it spoke on or something

6:26

like that yeah and I've been interested in that in in therapy you know gaming

6:31

therapy ever since and I thought you know prison being near and dear to my

6:37

heart for no good reason is a clear to hear about that as far as their personal

6:42

connection as well and I'll share a little bit about - oh no I my father did

6:48

some time in prison when I was younger until I was older so he was there for a long time and they were there was a

6:55

group there that kept getting in trouble oh really because they kept because they

7:00

were trying to get because they were trying to gain right yeah cuz I've been banned since the 80s at most prisons there yeah they were loosening up and

7:06

then in 2011 there was a an appeals court ruling that said superintendents can arbitrarily banned anything without

7:12

having to prove cause they can just feel that there's a security threat they don't have to prove it

7:18

20:11 really anything goes in Michigan you've seen her tightening again at one point Washington state was banning like

7:24

all books non-gaming books all goes back and forth because it's so arbitrary you

7:31

get this these it's really inconsistent across the country one thing it was consistent but the u.s. is not really

7:39

about consistency and he was also talking about the two different types of

7:45

prisons when you're when you're kind of pitching this idea those who actually have a rehabilitative interest that

7:52

they're expecting they're gonna go in with they're not lifers they're going to go back into society and if we're going to do that most of us

7:59

who care about rehabilitation I'm a Washington state registered recreation and usually recreation therapists the background of music therapy neuroscience

8:06

and research psychology doesn't want you

8:21

to he's not like a focused optimized

8:33

character but he can do a bit every so anyway the spectrum from rehab to just

8:42

purely punitive so different prisons are different areas on that spectrum and the rehabilitative ones are pretty open to

8:49

having different programs that will help prepare inmates to go back out into the

8:54

world have the social skills the coping mechanisms the job transitions the housing transitions there's are so many

9:01

things that once you're locked up for any period of time your outside world falls apart and you with a few rare

9:10

exceptions when you do get out whether it's parole or you did your time you

9:15

know it's like Blues Brothers yeah there was one person there to pick them up if there's nobody there to pick you up you may not even have money for a bus

9:22

ride home right you should be in the middle a lot of prisons are put cuz nobody wants in their backyard Yeah right out in the middle of nowhere you

9:28

don't know where you could reoffending psyche yeah so you can you can end up

9:34

starting with nothing and now the rehabilitated ones try to offer resources to help that transition

9:40

because if you don't the recidivism rate is almost a hundred percent in that said that's what I want to talk about

9:46

specifically going recidivism rate back in yeah yeah how is how is our how our RPGs affecting that so Roblin games

9:53

themselves the research is light and again RPG research is a 501 C 3 non-profit volunteer run we have over 70

9:59

volunteers spanning five continents now we had seven two years ago but I own research since 83 running programs in

10:07

school since 85 and the therapeutic setting since 2004 and then I was always partnering with different organizations

10:12

but then when we got our 501 C 3 a few years ago that's when we started actually bringing in long-term volunteers and the research on actual

10:21

role playing games in prison specifically is very little except for related to this documentary where it's

10:27

you know a lot of case studies and such but as far as aggregate data however so you have to look at the broader what's close to it they call them creative

10:33

programs and creative programs can include acting improv all kinds of

10:39

theater types the Shakespearean library I've actually I've actually gone and taught theater class right and you know

10:45

am I now new brother-in-law Joe Coonan runs the classes for Jet City improv in

10:51

Seattle okay and then he's on one of our shows too there's a character stuff but so they run them too are there if I

10:57

won't see three and they run in problems but he's a streamer now mostly they're

11:03

mostly just at the Jet City improv but he's at one of our shows so we love those guys yes yeah Jose Jose awesome

11:09

and he officiated for the wedding too all right help bury his sister doc we're assuming that you have a personal reason

11:14

why you are like basically backing and yeah so we work a lot with what because

11:21

we do five days a week research two days a week and we work a lot with at-risk youth incarcerated populations from

11:28

mental health and other things transition programs alternative schools

11:33

we literally drive a wheelchair accessible bus and trailer gaming rooms to party in the trailer corners and say

11:39

come on in and learn how to play games and you know at-risk youth means they're at risk of not finishing school becoming

11:47

homeless and or ending up in prison as adults right yeah and you can be an at-risk adult too you can be 30 so for

11:53

example middle-aged white males are extremely high risk for all those things happening as well if certain

11:58

demographics information happens and there's actually less of a support infrastructure because it's the majority

12:05

right so they that does that a sports director so they actually end up with a very high risk of ending up in prison

12:10

and such so in homelessness and such so I had an abusive father very abusive and

12:21

he was friends with the sheriff hearing so nothing ever happened there he was actually a psychologist and everything

12:27

hypnotherapist did a lot of interesting things but was very abusive through

12:33

through windows and walls and stuff like that so there was an abusive background my mom divorced him got me away from that eventually when I was older but a

12:39

lot of you know at first seven years are fundamental years so that set the stage for certain things and then ADHD and

12:46

some Aldi's etc so I would definitely qualify by today's language as the back in the 70s as at-risk youth and really

12:52

did struggle I did not I really started getting in fights all the time I never threw the first punch but I've been

12:57

training martial arts since I was four also you're six foot eight I'm now securely but I was okay I was second grade sixth graders were fighting me and

13:04

so it was bad I went to Utah's only non-mormon the whole school so that minority think it was bad I was

13:10

in so many fights a year and so lots and lots of that going on and then as a teenager started to manifest signs of

13:18

bipolar and such not knowing that right and so getting more and more impulsive not sleeping for days at a time then

13:24

then just crash and then it so all these things were happening and what I did notice in hindsight is

13:30

when I was gaming with my friends and such and I was gaming quite a bit things were going quite well it provided

13:36

some structure it provided I am a very hyperactive high-energy person I get I've met constantly getting it gave a

13:43

great resource for my energy and I naturally didn't need to sleep much anyway and when every else is asleep you

13:49

got to go do something what I'm gonna do next yeah and if there wasn't gaming and other things and hobbies and such then it could lead to trouble I did get in a

13:57

lot of trouble for basically you know stealing cars and getting police chases and stuff like that

14:02

no no violent crime or anything but it was bad and eventually after half a dozen times in our jail getting

14:09

therapeutic help getting diagnosis you know etc started to turn that around in

14:14

my early 20s but everybody there in the probation system etc and I and I was

14:20

looking at 17 years before parole if I ended up in prison I was hovering right on that brink and one of the points we

14:26

were all whole bunch of people were brought in to rage like hundreds of people and they overpopulated the jail

14:34

cell they got a lot of trouble with the civil rights unions after this but that that came later and there were 32 of us

14:40

packed into a 16-man cell in quarantine and the place was locked down because just before a black gang and Hispanic

14:47

gang you just had a fight stab each other with the broom and dustpan inside mm-hm so all of the cells were in lockdown you

14:54

couldn't have phones television books commissary anything and everything was

15:00

double capacity people were sleeping on the cement floors only a few had cops on the floors I came in and you know

15:05

asserted my alpha Ness and somebody gave me their bunk without my having to ask so I was okay so this tall guy

15:12

I was a jerk about it but you gotta set it but everybody was on edge he had heroin addicts going through withdrawal

15:18

not getting their medication it was bad it was a powder keg waiting to go off and at the time gaming was going on you

15:25

know I hadn't been gaming for a little while but I bribed said we gotta do something so he had I was given a little yellow post-it with a pencil and I said

15:34

anyway I do a role-playing game well I

15:48

wasn't gonna do all we can do different groups and you pick six or eight they're interested and they were all hesitant

15:55

but I got the one guy who recalled chief who was Native American Navajo somebody

16:01

from from Vietnam somebody it was really multi-ethnic yeah and we gathered around

16:06

and and I made picklists so I pick a member you blind just pick that was how we did a randomization on one to 100

16:13

because and there's middle-earth roll planed yes but a fairly simple logical that people get percentages mm-hmm and

16:19

we did a very simple character sheets just whip them up on there do the pick list to make your stats it took about 15

16:24

minutes do a light version of murder and so we're playing and these guys are calming down and just they're focusing

16:31

on that and they're learning to work together and all the rest of the cell is

16:37

starting to listen and to watch hard to

16:42

ignore it was yeah yeah try to keep it down but is there some people try and sleep and stuff but and then we want to

16:48

take a break no man please don't stop this is the only reason I'm coping busy was going through heroin withdrawal and everything and so I just switched to

16:54

another group and we just and so for half a week I think it was we were lockdown

17:00

it just kept doing that and ourselves Owen didn't blow up during that time again there were a lot of lawsuits after

17:05

so that was the most extreme personal connection to that yeah in addition to now so over the years I finished my

17:12

probation you know they always said once a crook always the correct ones in the system you never get out right that's mostly true unfortunately without a lot

17:20

of resources and some luck and a lot of termination because once I was out on probation nobody would hire me right

17:27

right you pay the fines I had huge fines and so I you know I was working 7-eleven

17:33

I worked every shift I could I was homeless three times you know literally in a tent on the mountainside in the winter and but somehow pulled it off and

17:42

it was the first time because I I flunked eighth grade dropped out of high school did my GED etc it was the first

17:48

time I was I believe a long-term goal so I had seven years to pay the fines at it in four years and two months I was like

17:53

50 grand in fines what's that Congrats we're doing in four

17:58

years versus the seven yeah well I figured the longer it was the greater the risk of something going wrong on the

18:04

right yeah so it yeah I just did a bit of the best I could and it was the first time I learned what later I learned the

18:10

concept to begin with the end in mind where you set a long-term goal and then every choice you make along the way is

18:16

towards that goal well role-playing gaming represents at all time when you set up your quests and such yeah you're generally once you set up the seed you

18:22

begin the end of mine now what do we do as a group to find the way we don't know all the details between I'm sorry I feel

18:27

like a whole lot of gaming groups that I have run for could use that talk before we sit down on the table well that's all

18:33

about Tuckman's theory of group dynamics forming storming norming and performing

18:39

node you get a few minutes out of this guy yeah most groups are stuck in forming and storming and have a lot of

18:45

trouble getting to the norming and performing so forming is you come together you've never met before no prior history no grudges and everybody's

18:52

usually more polite it depends I feel

19:01

extremely seen but they you know generally people try to be on their better behavior first when they come

19:07

together mm-hmm then at a certain point as the task is not getting done tempers start to build

19:13

and people start fine you're gonna do it I'm gonna do it no I'm gonna do it no and you start to buy and every then is trying to figure out who's gonna do what

19:19

people are not necessary is nice but you try to get through it eventually if all goes well you'll get to the norming

19:26

stage where everybody has their role you have to spell it out everything is like okay George you really get ready

19:31

for the the door and you get ready to back me up with your you know your magic missle and with your bow and arrow I'm gonna stealth over here and take care of

19:38

the trap and you have to verbalize it and coordinate it but now you've got a pretty effective group at the norming phase the performing phase is where that

19:45

all just becomes automatic and then that's the best opportunities for flow state making a flow state along any of

19:50

these and you showed it in in dorkness Rising where you guys are playing they look up it's 2:00 a.m. and they're like

19:58

wow I had no idea that much time went by that's that's an indicator of flow state when that happens in anybody who's game

20:04

for any amount of time has had that experience and all of these things it's

20:09

not so a lot people like well this is prisoners shouldn't have a good time right now we're to the punitive side instead of rehab so we're talking about

20:16

developing social skills impulse control you know developing a network a real

20:21

social network through gaming and such you know an alternative to gang and violent groups when you get discharged

20:27

we've worked with groups of large mental health facility on the west coast they have kids who are put in because of

20:34

drugs or game violence and then they usually have a mental health diagnosis and we helped them with a transition plan we introduced them to a gaming

20:40

group in town they get a day pass on an escort join the group if they want to it's always challenged by choice and now

20:47

they've got a new peer group that they're building relationship with before they're even discharged and that gives them something else to do now they might go a little obsessive about it at

20:53

first looking over all the rules earning but where do you want them putting their energy but also yeah how many of us

20:59

don't go obsessive when we first get into either a hobby or a game you'll be surprised how few do now one of the

21:05

things that I've always weird as much as I'm involved gaming since 77 I don't really feel that I'm a part of the

21:12

gaming bubble okay I've always felt like I'm looking at it from the outside even when I was in it I like our Vice

21:18

President he's well connected with all the community and has always been very part of it I went through a whole closet

21:24

gaming period for a decade professionally I had to because I would here so here I was back in the 90s

21:29

homeless by 98 or 99 I was CIO and by 2000 CTO chief technology officer for

21:36

companies I was working with fortune 500 companies and Barnes & Noble Microsoft IBM work we are

21:41

out of board meetings with them yeah and so you're not talking about D&D during those board meetings right okay okay I

21:47

overheard is the stigma of the 80s people who lost getting raises or

21:53

promotions because they found out they were gamers between the satanic panic

22:00

and it just being considered nerdy yeah well it's better than it used to be with Big Bang Theory etc but they're still

22:06

mocking gamers yeah it's still there I because we take the bus and trailer and

22:11

I've got RPG as my license plate now so I'm no longer in the closet okay that's off yeah but good ten years though if

22:20

you have d20 on your collar yeah for the browser yeah no definitely I'm out here

22:28

but I don't think my career would have been successful if I had told people

22:33

about one of my favorite pastimes just that's the way it was now less of an issue and yet the majority people are

22:40

not gamers sorry guys it's true I do this and so everybody's in this bubble we're kind of preaching to the choir and

22:46

don't realise so we go out on the street we go to libraries and stuff and we literally have parents dragged their kids away from the door who want to come

22:52

play saying we don't let we don't play those kinds of activities those kinds of people kill people why that just

22:59

happened in March okay I've documented it's all on our website and everything on RPG research the there was a survey

23:07

done just a few years ago of social workers okay these are the people who control what services are given to people all ages yeah yeah

23:13

somewhere between 60 to 80 percent of them responded that they believed gamers were psychopaths

23:19

that's 60 to 80 percent of surveyed social workers so there's still a stigma

23:25

out there I've gotten a grief for bringing this up why why do you bring up the past it's not the past it's not the past right and so every

23:32

time we do presentation for a facility and such we start out the history of role-playing gaming shooting down the

23:38

myths with all the research that disproves all of it and that's what start with the research of oh suicide

23:43

rate of gamers is like one-fifth to one-tenth that of gamer's the meaninglessness levels of

23:48

college students is like 47% only 17% for gamers at the same peer group and

23:53

meaninglessness means you have some direction and some purpose and some connection we are more likely to succeed in life psychopathology

24:01

is higher in non-gamers than in gamers yeah the exact opposite on the way and

24:06

and he's got a need to prove that this is a little bit of research that is out

24:12

there just proving the negative there are there are certainly some gamers online who are doing their best to live

24:17

up to those stereotypes their individual

24:22

already can be yeah very vocal like individuals and they like examples more

24:28

than they like statistics I know yeah well so as far as yeah and so I have a gazillion anecdotes for any particular

24:33

population just about you could you can name between ages 2 to 90 plus years old

24:38

so if you have any research that shows like the recidivism rate falling because of right so sorry thanks back bringing

24:46

it back regular back around but so creative programs of different states have run their own research to see if

24:52

these programs were worth it and they found depending on the state in the program anywhere from 20 up to 80%

24:58

reduction recidivism so recidivism is that you get discharged either on parole probation or you've

25:04

done your time within 18 to 36 months most especially if they've been multiple

25:09

convictions that led to prison will reoffending the system one way or

25:14

another that that's just statistically it's the way it is once you're in that's a once in the system never out of the system most the people I know from my

25:22

late teens early 20s are dead or lifers because they went in so many times the three-strikes thanks you're right yeah I

25:30

was one of the few I know one other who got out the system but he's his and he's

25:35

shattered he became so institutionalized he did go to prison and was beaten badly ribs sticking out

25:42

things like that we moved him up from from the house from prison and such and

25:49

you know took years to even get back to some functional level and such and he's still just half the person he used to be

25:56

and he was a dear friend so it that is needs to change yeah and there isn't

26:02

enough awareness now I do agree we need a prisons I am okayed that there's a punitive part

26:09

I needed that was my wake-up call first time I was sitting in a holding cell and then I needed a few more to by force to

26:14

the head because I was about six times one time truly I didn't do anything wrong I wanted to pay a fine they had a

26:21

warrant it was somebody else but it had the same name the guy had killed cops out FBI no I swear so but there was one

26:41

of those times a true truly wasn't my fault the other five times yeah okay but I'm sitting there I had a major white

26:48

knight complex because I'm with my dad and everything I'd always write I was a guy who fought the gangs whenever stuff somebody been picked on

26:54

I'd go inter see because my martial arts background so I had a real white knight complex and then I'm sitting in jail

27:01

because I had just gotten a chase for stealing gas and stuff and I doing this

27:06

isn't the person I wanted what's going on mm-hmm and so that was the first thing in it but it took a little bit to fully sink

27:12

in and and and overcome that you know now I'm father three adult boys I've

27:18

been successful in multiple careers and now I've got five little company you've got a nonprofit organization that's been

27:24

in yeah so I'm giving back to society right like did turn it around so tell me

27:32

about the Kickstarter yes so there's this wonderful Kickstarter which is not my kicks are just to be clear some

27:37

people have that confusion right but obviously there's a personal connection so this is Elizabeth declares project she is a documentarian of ten plus years

27:46

she's done a few small bits that we've seen on YouTube and vice and elsewhere on inmates and convicts and such and

27:53

role-playing gaming and they've they've been very popular I've seen them do in the realm advice yeah that's all her nice so that's the same person excellent

28:01

and so I set up a quick website for them RPG do seek amor RPG documentary comm you the one goes the same thing because

28:07

the kickstarter is too long to tell people to find it so you go there and it links to the cook kickstarter so she's

28:13

been following these prisoners for years and aggregating all of this and she shot a lot of this film already right but and

28:20

this is in California a lot of legal battles there she's in San Francisco this spans different parts california and she hits on different parts around

28:27

the country but she specifically has many interviews with with these guys they're now out you know and there and

28:32

but they've been it covers the legal battles all kinds of interesting challenges just wakes everybody up to what the process is and these are human

28:38

beings yes a lot of people want to go there are no longer humans they don't deserve the right to be considered that so since a lot of it's been shot as the

28:44

kickstarter mostly covering post and distribution and still follow-up interviews some legal stuff things like

28:49

that and then all the post-production so it's just so she can finish it and what's the what's the goal on that kickstarter 60,000 60,000 and you've got

28:56

another week to go on twelve days left just under 20 mm and of stuck there this

29:01

last day out there you know take a look

29:07

at the kickstarter at the very least and RPG documentary calm will get you there very easily very cool yeah before you go

29:13

I'd really like to talk a bit about cuz you you're part of so many different groups and helping you know anybody who's involved in therapeutic gaming

29:19

you're always giving them a shout out or projects yeah by the way Hawk is

29:24

actually tough number remember yeah

29:34

number one we've had that for years thanks to Ben Dobbins zombie or person

29:39

entertainment Chris ode and yourself for being so kind to give us that space so

29:45

blast me we only kind of Thursday we're come to Gen Con well we only we only found out a few days ago that we work we

29:51

had a guests at our booth before and they were you break it by the way Larry and Mercedes I'm sorry you couldn't be here

29:57

I miss you terribly but we were really glad to have you and give you the opportunity we drove 2,000 miles Monday

30:03

through Wednesday straight through together yep stop for three hours take three hour breaks here and there and eat

30:08

snacks the whole way yeah pretty much yeah and then you tried to help us set up the booth these good people and he

30:18

supports good conscience I want two dots RPG tell me yes so dots RPG wearing the label here probably if you come to the booth you

30:24

can see examples they make Braille dice and other accessibility equipment for gaming we're big accessibility advocate

30:30

so we drive around with this bus and trailer I just didn't an eight-state 26 day tour in the fall taking the RPG bus and the RPG trailer

30:37

all around the western United States trying to raise awareness about accessibility inclusiveness in gaming and it's a very visible the bus has got

30:44

artwork of gamers all over it in the black back of the trailer 26-foot trailer tire with a ramp so we can get

30:51

about three wheelchairs into it mhm and then a 22 foot bus with the wheelchair lifts so we can get about one or two wheelchairs into that and comfortable

30:58

with couches and all that for others and we have the Braille dice we have dice towers we have special pen holders

31:03

because we worked with muscular dystrophy cerebral palsy etc all sorts of accessibility equipment so that as

31:08

many people as possible can get the benefits that research shows are found from role-playing games from the social skills problem-solving turn-taking

31:16

impulse control the list goes on and on and on empathy empathy is a huge one that's one of the biggest ones we need

31:21

for prisons I didn't quite finish 20 to 80 percent reduction now the federal

31:28

government's offering upwards of 20 million dollars for prisons to to bring in more of these creative program knows

31:33

that a 20 to 80 percent reduction in recidivism and they're putting money out

31:39

there and the prisons are taking it it's worth the money for the 20 let alone the 80 yes yeah right any amount yeah and

31:47

these are not expensive to do no role-playing game it's not an expensive tabletop a broken he's not

31:52

expensive

31:59

a big difference between being an expensive hobby yeah and being a hobby that allows you to be as expensive as

32:05

you you don't need the mammoth bone dice creative out there for you you want but

32:11

I do that I do need do you have those because we want to buy them yeah you

32:16

have them yeah yeah there's men we'll put ice in there oh come on give me some mammoth so

32:25

so dots RPG is going to be at PAX West you couldn't make it here Jess Dempsey is the president of that we don't know

32:31

what that is we don't know what that is

32:38

and so I'm by proxy representing and I did she they recently brought me on their board and I helped them form their

32:44

501c3 which finally a lot of hassles out here on your wrong time

32:51

yes helping out another company out of the kindness of your heart several yes several yes in addition to

32:57

running your own business so uh that's yeah that's amazing I could easily talk to you for another hour about this but

33:06

Robinson you can check them out at our PC RPG research calm importantly go to

33:12

RPG documentary art but if you're interested in volunteering or finding out more about therapeutic gaming this

33:17

is absolutely the guy to talk we'd even talking about RPG professionals where hey game masters twenty to sixty an hour

33:23

but it's really difficult Spokane

33:33

Eastern logic showers east of slow will

33:39

prevent you to come on the show maybe another time but actually yeah because like we said we this is like something

33:45

that we are like when we are actually doing those talks would you mind being a guess that your martial arts training

33:55

should have prevented that he's using our own energy against all

34:06

the time we got free David thank you so much for coming on the show and talk to us I feel like I know more than when I

34:12

started today yeah maybe that's just my brain cells reactivating after last night's activities yeah I don't know but

34:19

thank you so much for being here we'll see you at the booth later bud check him out if you hear at the konnex

34:26

we've got more guests I mean my favorite part about doing stuff at the convention is that we get to have yes everyone's

34:32

everyone's here so I'd like to welcome Chris Rowland's and Lindsey tokuda from Funko games hey guys have a seat let's

34:42

talk so it is a big GenCon for Funko games oh yes yes it's also the first GenCon for Funko games the best the

34:53

first the most the mostest yeah superlatives old stuff so so let's get

35:00

started tell us a little bit about the game quick overview of Funko verse and it's anything any intros you'd like to

35:07

give for this sure so the first game

35:24

from Funko games our studio has been a ton of games previously Disney

35:31

villainess horrified jaws which are here at Gen Con this year so we have a long history of making games with some IPS

35:39

and so Funko came to us and they're like well we want to make a game as well so we started working with them on Fogo verse and then we you know found out

35:46

that our companies are really aligned in our values so we want to start a game studio how about we just acquire your

35:52

company and you can be our games together that was what we did it's been a blast ever since so Funko verse is the first

35:58

game of Funko Games publishing it ourselves as a miniature strategy game

36:04

adorable we wanted to the to the fans of

36:09

Funko you know really want we wanted to make a love letter I think if you didn't

36:14

that probably would have revealed like if the first game that Funko puts out doesn't have the cute little big-headed

36:20

dudes you're gonna have what I also loved was when you came to show us the game at Gen Con I was like wouldn't it

36:27

be funny if your game was this and you're like it is here it is I was like

36:42

but it was really important to us that our first game was as well and so we

36:57

created sort of this miniature strategy game system there are six games in the

37:02

system there's two Harry Potter games to DC Comics games that are sort of set in the Gotham part of DC Comics and then we

37:09

have a Rick and Morty very unexpected no

37:21

look at my appeal issue like yup no girls your same like that you put a lot

37:27

of love into it and it's not just an IP getting slapped on but that your history with game design you've used IPS in the

37:33

past and they've all shown that love oh my gosh yeah you know I mean that's part of the white your games are great

37:40

I work at our studio so I can speak to other studios but I know for us you know we're working on some of the most

37:45

beloved IPS we talked about jaws you talk about horrified which we publish with our partner Robbins Berger you know

37:53

these IPS are beloved and we're true fans of these properties and so we're trying to create the games as gamers that we'd want to play based on those

38:00

problems and judging by your past games that has shown over and over again that's why you're perfect for that job as far as I'm concerned you know I'd be

38:11

like that I grab the press releases from the press room and you guys are behind

38:16

like all the big releases from Robbins burger this year right yeah I mean malindi can speak to our relationship

38:22

with Robbins burger over over the years because she's been a producer at FPC for a longer time than I have yeah I mean

38:27

well this year we have obviously big ones villainous jaws horrified yeah the

38:32

new villainous one is just amazing but yeah so we've been working with Robbins burger for about 13 years or something

38:41

like that because before they were Robins burger they were the Wonder Forge and so Robbins burger acquired Wonder

38:47

Forge I think it was about four or five years ago I don't know the exact date sorry

38:54

so yeah but we have been partners with them and we have been working with them closely for a very long time and so they

39:00

they were able to get these incredible licenses they came to us and we said yes yes and you know we do what we do we put

39:08

all the love and devotion into every single game working with an IP and

39:15

taking capsule eating the feeling of that IP and also for a lot of people

39:20

love that IP aren't necessarily gamers so like matching those audiences and still developing something that a gamer

39:26

would look at and enjoy yeah absolutely and every licensure that we work with

39:32

has been wonderful and not everybody comes from a gamer background and so we you know bring him into the fold when we

39:38

talk to them about games and our love and our passion for them and then they were like oh yeah we we have to do this we have to work together

39:45

then you know we surprise them with our depth of knowledge you know when we talk about working on a Harry Potter property

39:51

you know these ones are based off the films so you know maybe I have seen

39:56

Harry Potter about 800 times I've got my

40:07

slipper excuse me hufflepuff you know there's a name here and I even I even took the when they when the Pottermore

40:14

came out with like you know what house are you in like the America school I even came out with like the horn sir bit one so like yeah that's really a

40:20

Slytherin matter where I go the southerner here we got to keep at least one Hufflepuff around to tip you to

40:26

either fall guy for whatever we're doing yeah clearly how is the weird kid so you

40:33

know we obviously bring a lot of love into the licenses and we get to know these characters very intimately and then so working with the licensers it's

40:39

it's really great because they recognize that love and so they're there they're 100% to support us and to also bring in

40:45

their knowledge and love for the license as well and from a game design perspective I mean we started every

40:51

project with like you know really absorbing what we're working on and saying like what are the elements of this that we really want to translate

40:57

because we're making an adaptation always easy to do that and so for us we

41:02

always try to highlight the really key elements of that and sometimes you get something like Lindsay and I were

41:08

working together as a designer and producer on drastic park danger for a Robbins burger and so that was something

41:13

where I was like you know I want to create this game where you're telling the story again because really what's

41:19

important about Jurassic Park to me is this idea of what would you do if you were on the island you know but when you

41:25

look at something like jaws which we did this year it's a little bit more true to the actual narrative of the film and

41:31

hits those beats and it's like two acts and all those things and so what we're getting into the Funko verse you know

41:36

we're trying to create one Universal system that we can apply all of these characters can live within and so you

41:43

know you have one system that that works for Golden Girls that works for ya Batman that works for Harry Potter that

41:49

works for Rick and Morty and so really we're trying to distill these characters down into their essence because every single character feels unique

41:55

and you know the Golden Girls you know as far as their their powers and abilities go are just as interesting if

42:01

not more interesting in my opinion than some of the Batman characters Harry Potter Opie is what you're saying I want

42:09

to play it was the Golden Girls thing

42:23

and you know you guys talked about it being from left field that was really important to tone the story of Funko verse because Funko's motto is

42:29

everybody's a fan of something and so we wanted to come up with this first slate of like of our miniatures game and we

42:35

wanted to have at least one license in there that proved to people that anything is possible yeah masterstroke as far as I'm

42:40

concerned yeah and so and so that's what Golden Girls is there for but at the same time I was like well it'd be hilarious if people went to tournaments

42:46

and all these hardcore tournament players had to play Golden Girls and so we gave them a lot of love and make sure that you know there's those characters

42:52

fit a niche that other characters don't and so blanche for example she has her highboys ability which lets her move

42:57

towards rivals she ruled far distance towards rivals she introduces herself and then she has flirt which is she can

43:04

use against someone and that deprives their team of resources they're kind of being distracted and and then her trait

43:10

is called devastatingly beautiful because of Atlanta and so it makes all

43:17

the enemies that are around her their challenges are weakened because she's just so distracting and so so but but

43:24

because of that her characters one of you know from a mechanic's standpoint is one of the most destructive characters in the game and you know fits a role on

43:31

your team's well so this [ __ ] this is the first gaming convention that this

43:36

has been because it was introduced at San Diego comic-con dacquoise many gamers so you have people on the floor playing this game what has the reception

43:42

been like I mean it's pretty tremendous yeah yeah you know it's it's been great

43:49

partnering obviously with Gen Con this is our first sort of convention has Funko games another funk

43:55

several years ago as part of the convention selling pop figures but there at every convention selling pop figures

44:04

but for us it's been really just a pleasure to be able to be in room 141

44:10

doing the demos you know just singing the demos because we added the events

44:16

pretty late in the game like right after your announcement for comic-con yeah and like looking at the schedule now a lot

44:22

of I think when I checked a little bit ago it was like just time pretty much

44:27

the only time on Sunday yeah what room is it again so everybody 41 140 141 you

44:37

know watching this but you're at the convention yeah I mean for us the reason

44:49

that those are sold out and the reason that without having that room is so important is because I was at San Diego comic-con and I saw how like how fierce and

44:56

fervent the collectors are for Funko's yeah and we all know everyone knows a Funko collector that everyone has a

45:01

Funko collector in their front group yep and so for us we want to really make sure that the games that we were able to

45:06

fly in for for sale at Gen Con we're going to people who are fans of the games and so we said that we don't want

45:13

to sell games in the commission hall we want to sell games in our demo room and

45:18

in order to purchase a game you have to get a ticket and that was really

45:23

important to our studio because you know in not just our studio but even Funko headquarters they were adamant about it

45:29

they're all we want gamers to get their hands on these hell of attendees reacted to that because this I mean that's not a typical way that a company will kind of

45:36

present their game a lot of times they just want as many people to buy it as possible they don't want to make you

45:41

kind of go through a demo experience for you how have people reacted to that so for us I have my shift yet in the

45:48

exhibition hall so I don't know how people are on this been actually pretty understanding and I think that a lot of

45:54

people will also appreciate what we're trying to do with that message and they're like you know what that actually makes sense rather than just like you

45:59

know it's that's a statement almost

46:05

exclusively collectibles watching the games and saying no this is for gamers yeah absolutely we want you to sit down

46:10

we want you to sit at our table we want to talk to you about the game we want to play it with you a couple times and then we want you to have that moment where

46:16

you're like whoa this is amazing and like this is not what I was expecting when I sat down at this table and I

46:22

hooked yeah and then they get really into them and they want to keep diving further into the process which one did

46:34

you get so much stuff here so we bought

46:42

the the Gotham the Batman starter set for the Golden Girls girls there's the four character sets

46:49

and the two character one mhm and then we're like we want the Harry Potter one too but our friend was there and so we're like what you buy of these I don't

46:55

get have us a reason to get together and play with the play try out all the different sets right we were at me held

47:01

back a little bit it was very hard not to just go hand get them and there's also a limit

47:06

there's the limit yeah you can buy one of the four packs so either a Harry Potter four pack or a DC 4 pack and then

47:12

you can buy two of the two packs yeah yeah so but I will say that as of yesterday these games are available for

47:19

pre-order online you know if you want you to get it right away as soon as it as soon as it you know hits the shelves

47:25

October 6 yeah please go to Target Walmart or games.com and then pre-order

47:32

the game there is it exclusive through those retailers it's not so we're partnering them we're partnered with

47:38

them for some of the pre-sales okay but really all its gonna be available everywhere on so I think that and that's

47:47

a good question because you know a lot of the games that we've we've come out with other publishers where sometimes we'll be like a target we'll get it

47:53

first or something get that so for this we were very adamant that it will be available everywhere and when

47:58

I say everywhere I mean everywhere at the same time so we wanted to make sure that everyone gets a chance to play it

48:04

and you know because you know Funko has such a rabid fan base it's gonna be

48:09

really cool to see this game in places that don't really care example a company

48:17

is showing that kind of dedication integrity I mean I can't speak to the

48:25

integrity of big companies but I will say that for us you know Funko and this is why are the relationship work out so

48:31

well and why we you know decided to get together is because our studio is really

48:36

passionate about creating like labors of love and I think I think truly Funko it's just elusive that yeah and yes

48:43

those you know those those those deals with the big box companies for where they're exclusive

48:48

those are very lucrative yeah yeah I know they're very lucrative and to pass up on

48:54

that to get it out to everybody is just admirable and we're gonna be announcing

49:00

our studio and we've conveyed this to the Funko headquarters and and they feel

49:06

the same way is very very strongly passionate about supporting flg yes we're gonna be launching organize play

49:13

which will have more information on that later this year that's so now I believe

49:19

don't quote me in this but I believe it the Alliance open house we'll have some other announcements about ways that we

49:24

hope to support flg yes because you know this is a game that we're hoping players are playing 10 years from now and we

49:30

know that if that's gonna be the case that it's gonna be playing at your local game stores getting together and

49:35

building and fostering those communities and so we're really we're really adamant about that you know so that's something

49:40

that that we talk about every single day and it's really near and dear to our hearts so I know you're on a tight

49:46

schedule is there any closing words you to say about the game anything about checking it out what booty yet yeah

49:53

we're in the booth 20:49 on the on the main floor so when you're in Gen Con check up with 2049 where you

49:59

have all the the games on display kind of in the middle towards the back in the

50:04

middle towards the back it's a great spot it's it's a wonderful spot yeah so we're giving high level demos there if

50:10

you cannot get into room 141 in here if you're watching this at 20 49 in the

50:15

exhibition hall or at 1:41 we also have limited and I mean like 1000 were

50:20

printed Gen Con exclusive shirts we did gennadiy the dragon is fully like popped

50:28

on the shirt 2019 Gen Con like I saw the shirts they're really cool so if you

50:38

purchase the games you get a chance to demo you persons games you'll get pins we have posters and what's the price

50:44

point on the games the price point for the large box is a $39.99 and then

50:49

$24.99 oh those are there so they fall well within the really affordable rap and they're all standalone playable so

50:57

even if you just buy a 2-pack yeah you can actually play that game as that is excellent

51:02

yeah well thank you so much for joining we're so glad to have you you should all be very excited about this game and

51:08

check it out to get a chance right you're not yet you're also not too far away from where we are right this time

51:14

next time you have a new product okay come on and I really think we've talked a lot about with Funko games about

51:19

having them come on table takes about having them Oh stream in general so hopefully we can work something out soon

51:26

are you kidding yes Franco wants to do a game night with us so there you go we

51:32

want to hold on to the open ones that we get to play with great thank you so much

51:39

have a great day see you - see ya 20:49 2049 2014 what year 2014 I was very

51:49

confused feeling a little far ahead yes those are our guests I don't even know I

51:55

mean do we even have any show I think we're still I think we still have more

52:02

than a show left we have more well

52:13

especially because Gen Con so like normally we would be making the agenda on you know Wednesday night Thursday

52:19

night we had time to read a lot of news this week about games I mean I know there is one unfortunate news that we

52:26

have been talking about tax man's back everybody tariffs that weren't gonna

52:33

happen guess what yeah Trump just

52:39

announced that he is taking back because China's not negotiating so he's adding the 10% tariff to all of

52:49

these products about three three hundred billion dollars worth of products that are imported from China so that affects

52:56

a lot of people who are of course Kickstarter's a lot of people who like gaming dice and all of those various

53:02

different things even printables as well for gaming books and materials so yet

53:08

that 10% increase is scheduled to happen next month

53:16

not anymore it was a probably thing and then it was I don't worry about a thing and now it's gonna happen so it's the

53:21

usual way things go and yeah the baby it appears the audience has some commentary they would like to add

53:29

grumble grumble grumble

53:44

it will make them more competitive well yeah it will make them more competitive

53:50

a sudden we're gonna jack up the price of paper assuming the rest of the market remember we talked about that paper

53:56

itself is going up even without this taxing or with the tariff increase it's just because paper mills that usually

54:04

would print books and cardstock are now switching to cardboard because yeah I

54:11

try not to out people

54:33

yeah in theory that's what tariffs are supposed to do yeah you make things more

54:39

expensive so the expensive local things are relatively not as expensive take it

54:52

from us I will encourage people to do the research to talk about it to contact your local official I mean yeah we went

54:58

from happy away like we've been like bouncing around emotional rollercoaster

55:04

oh man you owe me a coke wait I owe you a pelican there's a oh oh I'm giving it

55:12

to Emma I think like long story short is we don't know what will happen and there

55:17

will probably be some this is yeah on our part this is just speculation and

55:23

you know a sudden panic it's also it's also standard operating procedure for the current state of affairs yeah yeah

55:30

we are in a constant state of emotional flux yes so that especially those of us that are slightly liberal might be so so

55:37

that that curtain is coming down September 1st apparently right yes all

55:42

right got a month left guys all right so you're saying we haven't had a chance to read much news but we've been seeing

55:48

news like I've been seeing use in the making I feel like in the time we have left like I want to find like who's

55:53

gonna go next is I'm very excited about the things that I've been seeing on them we'll go ahead mention chaos chaos so

56:01

let's just go there yeah okay so let's start with this okay all of us yes have very very different experiences at

56:08

conventions yeah all right Banzai this

56:13

is your first Gen Con yes I'm a baby Gen Con yeah I'm you know you are obviously

56:19

out there with the games like you're you're seeing new stuff you're talking to the game designers you're running

56:26

logistics on everything yeah and I'm taking like a hundred and seventy selfies a day with fans well quite a

56:33

spectrum yeah we have really huge spectrum when I want to talk about our individual con experiences and just you

56:39

know compare and contrast I would that would be fun for me who wants to go first I made an effort specifically because I

56:51

wanted to be able to speak to some of the things now this won't be an overview like this is that what's happening at

56:56

Gen Con these are even the coolest things you have a few things that you had a chance so very pick and choose

57:03

here so one of the coolest things I've seen and people have asked me about my highlight at Gen Con so far is the

57:10

temporal oh yeah we talked about this on the show before and I've been very interested in going over there but have

57:16

not made it that yeah I was very excited because we talked about on the show just a little bit about our weekly show that

57:23

we do every week every week on TV is actually a streaming channel that we do

57:30

we have various different streams yeah table take that it's the most important

57:36

yeah so because the table takes the show is growing and includes in popularity and because we talked about it and I was

57:42

so excited about in the show actually reach to me through my website form and said

57:47

do you want to come and check out tomorrow at I know we've arrived oh oh

57:52

people are reaching out to us we're media they're like do you want a media so I'm like my media we're real life

57:58

people yes so it's really cool you can actually go over to the Seamon booth and

58:05

it's so if the booth looks great from

58:10

the outside I haven't been in pretty cool so you can see what's going on so

58:17

they're not really it's not media slots where they're keeping it behind closed curtains like they're making it's very

58:22

visible well they even really reach out to me again another last-minute thing they had a bunch of events that were

58:27

scheduled in the system to just allow attendees or anybody to really to reserve a spot to play around with it

58:33

for a little bit yeah those are also out now not standing if only I wonder only

58:39

we knew someone who knew someone oh

58:45

you're the person you're the human person so you got a chance to play with it I think in the board game hobby

58:54

there's a lot of mixed feelings about digital you know some people are very anti digital like don't let any they

59:00

don't play video games they don't want any computers I only want things that ruin the environment and for me like I

59:07

I'm gonna say I love video games I love board games I love all games role-playing games anything that was

59:14

actually kind of a pre-race job so and I'm very excited about the future and

59:19

the intersection and the number one thing for me and as a game designer as well is approachability mm-hmm so as

59:26

gamers probably most the people watching this show like you are fine to sit down with the rule book for half an hour read

59:32

the rule book beforehand watch a bunch of videos like wait wait Nick aren't you supposed to watch videos before you play

59:38

is that exactly that's what we do only Millennials watch videos but that's true that's true I've never done you're

59:45

supposed to read early you're supposed to read the rule book barefoot in the snow uphill both ways yep that's how we

59:51

do it well still don't know how to play that game of thrones game for that very reason right it's a thing now like if you don't

59:58

personally own the game if you're playing someone else's copy that will say like oh you're coming to my game night you should watch the video beforehand so you have that intro and

1:00:05

then I'll also teach it but it makes it just a little easier to jump into the game you don't do that kind of madness

1:00:11

no I'm just like oh ah bring some awesome plate do you have beer the point

1:00:16

for you coming over is to hang out with hang out like the game is incidental how

1:00:22

can you not yet there's some there's some I've been in some groups yeah where they're like okay so I'm gonna be a beer

1:00:28

and pretzel kind of girl if you know that refers to I don't know if you be really well I like yeah yeah yeah

1:00:37

casually somewhat casually yes um what you meant I also have food is mostly

1:00:44

cheesy poof's container and so like a lot of people are like you touch things

1:00:49

with your edge you don't have it's so funny like it's a sidebar right it's like we're playing the games and then

1:00:55

they're mad about you touching them anyway it's not a way to rein it in Emma

1:01:02

the game is zombicide evolutions is gonna be the first game released like a

1:01:08

variant of zombies right they're designing this game specifically for the temporal realtalk I've never played Tom

1:01:14

aside before in my life I was a little nervous again while watching the video I'm like maybe I should watch the video

1:01:19

are they gonna expect that I have played on the side so we got in there and the first thing you've all played zombicide

1:01:25

before right I'm like didn't you know just like I'll just go with it I want to

1:01:30

out myself he could start a relationship on a line like that and yet she did and succeeded

1:01:36

a ministry then I was also interested to see you know as someone who'd never played it before how will this experience and not having that being

1:01:43

like really disgusted me so we just jumped into it you know so they have the

1:01:48

tiles for those of you who haven't seen the the pictures online in the news about it it's a foldable

1:01:54

word that has the tech and the RFID is in it it has a hub that plugs to a tablet and then each player also has

1:02:00

their own device it's going to be Apple and Android so you can mix and match devices the main device can be a tablet

1:02:08

or it could be a PC okay plugs right into ya so you take your characters the

1:02:14

titles go on to the board you will place them on a little circle that is like where the activator is and that counts

1:02:20

as a move and see you move it you can tap it again to search the area you can place another piece down if

1:02:25

you're doing a attack okay so you move in here you move here you do the attack and came out to my turn I'm like okay I

1:02:31

move it I move it I can search in here okay tap it I got a new fancy chainsaw you know that I can cut down all the

1:02:38

zombies with and I was playing the game yeah you know there was the way that the

1:02:44

screen works is it will show you it has a little bit of helper text it's got a mini tutorial built in it's like okay

1:02:50

now move your piece and as cutscenes you get into the room and there's a lot of flavor this guy is like hanging by his

1:02:57

feet from the ceiling being attacked by the zombies and yet the rescue this person is like you see silver yes yeah

1:03:04

so it was very good it's very immersive zombicide isn't necessarily like I'm not

1:03:10

huge into zombies it's not something I would pick up myself but I had fun learning the game I didn't feel any

1:03:17

boundaries homicide I think is a pretty good example of how where table rule would help just because it is like it's

1:03:24

I wouldn't call it a simulation this game yeah but it's a it's a pretty like readily apparent how you interact with the game

1:03:31

yeah you are a character moving around a world doing things in the world and then fighting zombies so that matches totally

1:03:37

willing them given the name of the game yeah or you're just bad at the game yeah yeah but like you know you're moving

1:03:43

your character around like it makes pretty close sense I wonder how that accessibility will translate to games

1:03:48

that are a little more abstract yeah yeah I think for in they'll probably focus more around the

1:03:55

peace movement minigame of course we are C Mon you know the first games that so

1:04:01

what you're saying is this Kickstarter board game is going to be perfect for the Kickstarter board being and they do

1:04:10

have three total games that they're working on to release you know with the

1:04:15

Kickstarter just around that time they do they give any details on those or they just say that they have they said

1:04:20

they had three the only one they've announced is the zombicide evolution ones and they're doing all the

1:04:26

development now for the software and for the tech in the game design but in the future so the big exciting thing is when

1:04:33

people are thinking about is a console they specifically use the word console for it and the thing people like oh you

1:04:39

know are people getting into this is there gonna be enough content apparently they've been flooded with pitch meetings

1:04:44

people are pitching them Wow so the industry is so excited that they're come they're like I want to do something so

1:04:50

they have more than enough things and in the beginning that will do it but their plans in the future are to make it make

1:04:56

an API make it easy for people to design their own games for this console mm-hmm very cool yeah yeah it sounded kind of

1:05:04

weird at first but the fact that you're so excited about it yeah it makes me excited about open to offers so what

1:05:17

you're saying is you're gonna have a pitch for them yeah what yeah they just pitched tabor two takes we could all get little

1:05:32

figures for ourselves oh good pile did we get piled it in the agenda and need to sort it out and then

1:05:37

regurgitate it I would love to be a figurine please and I think the biggest

1:05:44

thing is a lot of the triggers a lot of the upkeep for a game and this is the

1:05:50

thing and saying like my my niece and nephew who are like 12 years old they could play this like my non gamer in-laws could

1:05:58

play this like my Maron's could probably play this because it takes care of that upkeep and like the maintenance stuff so

1:06:05

you have like your house so the upkeep phase the maintenance phase but it doesn't keep tear the untap phase really

1:06:16

it's irrelevant to the joke that I attempt to make that you then destroyed

1:06:21

nerdy you know lots of stuff just like

1:06:29

how many zombies come in where they come in tracking your health and all those little things you know which a lot of

1:06:36

gamers love you know they like doing that doing that crap that's part of the reason they don't play a lot of board

1:06:42

games remembering like how much helps did I have tracker you got a tracker

1:06:47

yeah I like yeah you gonna do the stuff you

1:06:54

do gonna physically put this on you look at the thing there they want to be mass

1:07:08

they want to eventually go to mass they want to get more people and to me I think I'm I'm all for making it more

1:07:15

accessible but I think like personally for me as a gamer the thing I'm most interested in is it may be fulfilling

1:07:22

the promise that we've seen of other electronic crossovers like we talked about golem Arcana and stuff like that

1:07:28

and like ones that have attempted and failed yeah but the promise has always been allowing

1:07:34

a more complicated system or a more rich system without increasing the

1:07:40

complication that the players have to play with so like I am comfortable with a certain amount of complication at the board I'm happy to do that that's

1:07:47

probably part of why I'm playing the game yeah but you know this allows the

1:07:52

game behind that to be much bigger and deeper and perhaps you know do more without increasing the load on me even

1:07:59

if I'm at a higher like then you know a starting or or or you

1:08:05

know non-gamer player yeah so hopefully it's gonna be able to kind of hit both ends of that spectrum yeah I think so

1:08:10

and it's really gonna it's gonna depend entirely on what games people make for it yeah so like you know this is like

1:08:17

discovering dice like dice are sweet I wonder what people are gonna do with them and hopefully we'll get a whole

1:08:24

range of ridiculous things yeah I think they were very candidate this show to

1:08:29

you and like can I just talk about all this yes anything we say here is free free to say so price point they're

1:08:36

saying at the hundred to $120 and that's for the system you still have to buy the games on top of that that are gonna be

1:08:42

about the same price as a game would be does it come with a game not for that

1:08:47

Franco so the you will have to buy the zombicide at like the forty fifty whatever price point it is based on how

1:08:54

consoles work I suspect that we'll have like you buy the kind then you get an extra controller a game and then you buy

1:09:00

a package with it and etc etc and that

1:09:07

was the one thing it did come with the game but they were saying that they were going to be a which ones dropped me

1:09:14

that's the one where you put the cards in and it makes the sound okay yeah I was thinking it was something you put in your water to flavor it it's brand new

1:09:25

flavor in your ear yeah I think and

1:09:32

that's just start to so like imagine like as tech gets cheaper like the able

1:09:37

to well once you get the mass production of yeah well what is that theory that

1:09:43

the guys still alive who's like really into futurism that the the path of technology as it is right now is going

1:09:50

to outpace itself so like you can walk out of the store and have an outdated phone there yeah I think that's right

1:09:57

now we're almost there we're we're almost to the future oh gosh darn it to the future it's the future is now the

1:10:04

future is then I'm gonna help you with this okay here we go we got this everybody all right no no

1:10:09

nope you almost got me I did but what I'm gonna say is do you want to let's

1:10:16

let's do a ridiculous take how long until those whiz kids pre-painted and

1:10:21

unpainted minis are built in with the table ooh RFID six years six years

1:10:28

that's Mike a six year we got a six years can we get a seven can we get a two five I feel like you're just trying

1:10:35

to do Price is Right rules I'm gonna say with like 3d printing and stuff right

1:10:41

now I'm gonna give it like careers in 3d printing is absolutely there I'm more

1:10:46

thinking about like hey let's make sure all of our well okay but I mean I'm

1:10:52

saying sooner because I went on the show floor and I saw some things on the show flow well why don't we that transition

1:11:00

what it is okay so this is a happy first

1:11:06

Gen Con do you kind of Jenkins man on the street since you got here so you've

1:11:11

been around basically twelve hours a day just well not twelve hours just like ten

1:11:22

yes you are but it's been fun I think I've been going around by the way for a

1:11:28

first-time experience going around with the Peter Atkins Atkinson yeah yeah that's pretty cool that's exactly the

1:11:35

hey and he's like hey you want to just go anywhere I'm like some reason they

1:11:42

give that guy like access to anywhere he wants to go it's all shelves the place there was a reason when Peter texted me

1:11:47

like hey Derrick I've got a plan I was like okay Peter that sounds great and then I was like Lauren please keep up like I need to know what's happening be

1:11:55

prepared to intervene we had a good time we don't apparently now I'm going to

1:12:00

officiate weddings here at Gen Con with him and it would be LARPing weddings you

1:12:10

are like the luckiest girl in the whole world so I have to say it was actually really funny watching your stream

1:12:15

because a couple of a is beginning one of your streams I could see in the background

1:12:20

people violating rules and then I could just call the local HQ and deploy the team and see the rule fixed in the NOC

1:12:27

yes I love this but it was also you were

1:12:35

going around the Peter and you're like where's Hobie I'm like a big magic sign

1:12:44

it's hanging from the sea very distracted you not see how like

1:12:50

sidequest we win oh yeah we win side quest side quest I got okay so like in the interview like I'm not like this is

1:12:57

my first time so I'm jumping and trying to get everything like kind of speed running I'm gonna warn you right now

1:13:03

it's not gonna work oh my god the main like half of the main area and the

1:13:09

stadium that's all I've covered there's so much yeah so much and then like one of the big things like there's the

1:13:14

LARPing area there's the laser tag and then there's also like a kid area so if you're like like I really do like so if

1:13:21

you're looking for kids to buy no no but I don't it is it's great that like you

1:13:28

know how Gen Con is they have things for everyone so even if you're a parent you know and if you want to be like one like

1:13:35

there I've seen like historical battles like it depends on what level you want to be there's always somebody there and

1:13:41

it's not just about like you know being like oh this is only my group my group

1:13:46

oh there's a lot of there generally people have been super nice yeah people

1:13:51

come to Gen Con to play games yes and usually they're playing a game that they love yes which usually means that they

1:13:59

want to share that with other people yeah so a lot of times people are pretty open and welcoming to getting new new

1:14:05

folks in teaching them the game getting them acclimated getting them through it because they want more people to enjoy

1:14:10

the thing that they enjoy and for those of us less socially inclined this is this is where we see our friends yeah

1:14:16

yeah you know I went had a lunch with a guy that I live you know maybe a half an hour away from yep did I work with you

1:14:23

know on the regular and I never get to hang out with them unless we're at Gen Con yep the number of the number of

1:14:28

people that it's like great halfway across the country together from the same place so now we can actually

1:14:34

see each other and Jen Kyle's just got kind of I mean it's obviously it's family friendly but it has over the

1:14:41

years you know between all the people who've come for you know since the beginning of time I guess back in the

1:14:46

Milwaukee days yep which I success in the early early 1900s but we're in what

1:14:54

the 51st year of Gen Con at this point a

1:15:04

lot longer than you've been around it's a family yeah it really is people

1:15:11

kind of have like rogue friendliness - it's not just that they'll invite you or

1:15:17

like allow you into their game we were our first year we bought machi Koro and we sat down in the hall we're looking at

1:15:23

this and this was kind of my intro to gaming - this was before I really had like read a lot of rules and played a lot games and we're kind of sitting

1:15:29

there like this it was just what I like do you want me to teach you that game I know how to play it like what just

1:15:36

random encounter in that case yes but hold on what's your response can I watch a video first yes do you want money do

1:15:50

you want thing exchange is like I just want you see you don't seem like you you just you don't look like you've watched

1:15:56

the video yes you look confused and scared and I want to help you with that

1:16:01

and that's how we used to learn how to play game yeah are you a little randomly approached I can just imagine some of

1:16:07

you like oh you want to learn how to play that game yes please here's the QR code watch the video and then what so this is your first

1:16:17

so I guess for the characterize it tell us some of the things that you saw oh my

1:16:22

gosh it's overwhelming and I just the one thing by the way hey if you want to

1:16:28

get into games definitely first day it comes out just sign up for everything cuz man those things fill up yes they do

1:16:35

I was thinking about I had a free time coming up on Sunday and I was thinking about signing up for some things but everything I want to do is I definitely

1:16:41

feel that we could find something new there's still stuff with tickets like it's one of those things of yes a lot of

1:16:47

things fill up but there's there's also so many things that have space yeah so Gen Con is very much a if you are coming

1:16:56

to Gen Con with one particular specific thing in mind and there's the only thing you want to do separately sign up early

1:17:02

but also like you are setting yourself up for frustration perhaps whatever it

1:17:08

but like if you are just kind of open to trying something different then you will

1:17:13

not stop finding things to occupy your time oh no I I have been I've been wandering

1:17:19

I I have bought many generic tickets and I have said hello questioner I have the monies may I join your group and it has

1:17:26

been successful so what have you played I actually did a werewolf game that was

1:17:31

the 1i I had a lot fun gosh-darned the werewolf one I knew while the Ouija was villain hideout my its waluigi yeah I

1:17:39

know he's always a villain yeah I knew it but they're like are you just judging this person cuz their waluigi I'm like I

1:17:46

know you're the werewolf you son of them

1:17:52

but yeah that was fun and then I also I also did a lot of like making stuff cuz

1:17:58

I have a worbla class yeah as well because and it's just yeah a worbla worbla it's like tell us about worbla so

1:18:05

I've never worked with animal so it's more of like a UH like you know how easy

1:18:11

a foam is foam worbla is like a very hard plastic but still flexible

1:18:16

yeah something kind of thing you'd make like armor armor Adam yeah okay yeah I have a link cosplay a medieval link

1:18:23

cosplay that I'm gonna be working on it some mario samurai by the waist making a historically accurate samurai costume is

1:18:32

painting not - I think that's why they stopped doing it in Japan yeah and then it yeah it's it was all so you can't

1:18:39

really sit down you have to have like a certain like pirate had like there's a reason why they're like a bit your seen

1:18:46

the crew so if there's a reason they have that little like action stool and I

1:18:53

decided to do this at like Emerald City Comicon and I was like yeah it'll be great and then I was like oh yeah I

1:19:10

loved playing D&D forever yeah I kept putting on armor and then put any of

1:19:15

those folks in a suit of armor it's like yeah go do go do anything I don't know

1:19:20

have you ever like tried to like one of these I would ask that would be really cool cuz there is a LARPing area maybe

1:19:26

you should contact the people that actually do the like fighting fighting you know we we've we've had we've had

1:19:32

live sword demonstrations to check in on the past no no but I mean there's a there's a group that does or you know

1:19:37

right okay yeah like we've had stuff like that in the past I want to see war

1:19:43

well okay I mean that's Gloria Becky Banzai you come on nice and innocent you

1:19:49

leave wanting to murder you got it come for the inclusion stay for the blood to

1:19:57

prevent especially the rush no in the morning you're like we want to have a

1:20:02

nice rush not oh yeah the rush was fun the release seen on video man watch from the inside

1:20:09

I've got a video it's pretty cool oh my goodness but how it's just like oh my god there's so many people I think this

1:20:15

morning they had the camera on the inside - I'm watching because our booth

1:20:22

is like you know right by the front door so I can watch everybody come in all at once and it's the firehose strong like

1:20:28

if I wasn't like safely behind my cardboard table I would feel so in danger

1:20:33

I know but I was saying that was one of the lake a first-time experience that's super fun to watch yeah I'd make sure I

1:20:38

watch it every year because it's my favorite part so your experience yeah it's been like

1:20:43

neat new games and new things that you've been trying out yes bonsais experience has been oh my god overload

1:20:51

what about you well and this isn't necessarily common knowledge but the

1:20:58

company that I'm with I've made some movies with and so I have the unique perspective that I get treated like a

1:21:04

celebrity while I'm here because we have you know lots and lots of fans and they you know like be sign autographs a lot

1:21:11

like my hand hurts from all the autographs so sorry for you also people

1:21:18

keep wanting to take their picture with no no it's like I don't know I get

1:21:25

treated like a rock star for a whole week and it's fun I like it I mean I can't necessarily like go anywhere by

1:21:31

myself which is okay because I hate being alone on the other hand I'm always so exhausted by the time I don't want to

1:21:38

talk to anybody for a week after I get home but this week is like this is okay that's right I can be a social human

1:21:44

being and look and I get to like I put on this whole I have a problem with crowds a lot of people don't know this

1:21:50

because I'm fine here because I've learned to kind of do this character you

1:21:58

do know about the quiet room right yeah the past couple years we've had a quiet

1:22:05

room in 211 okay and that is so 211

1:22:10

because I don't know if you it's near the second mark but remember you because you were probably running around when

1:22:15

you go they like the into Hall D for the event hall yeah kind of the big crossroads Hall go up the escalators

1:22:22

that go over the food court that's right there so like if people need to take a break from a crowd like if they don't

1:22:27

have a character they've developed and you can hop up to the quiet room and just kind of decompress for a few

1:22:32

minutes I've been doing this for you fifteen years now yeah yeah and that

1:22:38

character has kind of gone away over the over time you know like the first couple of years like I couldn't deal with the people so I would just show with my

1:22:44

pajamas you know and be the guy in pajamas pajamas but you know it's it's a

1:22:51

lot of the same fans plus a lot of the new ones so I recognize faces now and it seems like it's so much more home than

1:22:58

it used to be so it's not as overwhelming for me as it was you know 15 years ago so I I don't have a pajama

1:23:04

day on Saturday anymore cuz I'm meeting so new games yeah overwhelming yes

1:23:09

coming home coming home and then putting on like the biggest show that I do all

1:23:15

year we're doing you know we're playing to the big room thousand people were almost sold out again I said to

1:23:21

reschedule your rehearsal because move table takes up right and that I mean and

1:23:27

when you're dealing I'm here with a team you know I'm here with my seven cast members and four crew members and

1:23:32

producers and stuff like that so we're it's the only time of the year that I allow group texts to enter my phone oh

1:23:40

because we're all coordinating Andry coordinating and schedules talks I've got a movie seven and then tonight I get

1:23:48

to like go and see a thousand of my best friends and put on a show for them and

1:23:53

and hang out and have them come up and play monster and that's that's gonna be streamed yes so perhaps you should

1:23:58

mention the time and the channel will be on yeah it's gonna be it's gonna be on the gen con' channel Gen Con main stage

1:24:03

Gen Con main stage and of course it's probably gonna be we're gonna have it on the fantasy Network after that YouTube

1:24:09

following that so yeah definitely check that out that's a lot of fun I put a lot of work into it at what time is it it's

1:24:15

7:00 p.m. tonight and morrow morning at 11 a.m. there's lots of channels going around

1:24:23

three different channels so if you guys want to watch it it's twitch.tv slash team slash Gen Con so yeah after

1:24:33

tomorrow morning I just get to do regular Gen Con stuff which means I work the booth you know six hours a day and

1:24:42

only it's a it's fun it is kind of relaxing and I get to see all my friends you know

1:24:48

like the nice thing about my company is that I work with all the people I love you know like my my wife is part of the

1:24:55

company now you know but I think that's one of the one of the things that keeps a lot of people in the gaming industry

1:25:01

is it's not usually the fame and fortune yeah it's usually a combination of the

1:25:06

projects you're working on and the people you're working with yeah like we have the we have the best fans in the world but I'm never gonna be a rich man

1:25:11

because of it I just love what I do as long as they let me as long as they let

1:25:18

me make stuff and wear your pajamas when you really need to and wear my pigeon and they're very understanding about

1:25:23

that plus they just think I'm cosplaying stuff what is this oh yeah I got some

1:25:29

toys yeah yeah so we're in the show-and-tell phase let's do it well we

1:25:35

still go we're still gonna talk about what Derek oh yeah then we'll go to show and sure well so Derek's experience of

1:25:42

the show is arrived on Sunday have four days of meetings and emergencies and

1:25:49

then treat putting out fires yep and then you know yeah is just you know

1:25:58

things have to get fixed people a lot of people were gonna arrive Tuesday or Wednesday figure out that their space

1:26:04

isn't set up the way it was something's wrong it wasn't delivered there was miscommunications where's my pallet yep

1:26:10

yep so there's a whole lot of that that I have to deal with all the way through Thursday and then Thursday night ish

1:26:17

Friday Saturday or it's oh it's weird like my curve of the show is the reverse of most attendees and then I'm super

1:26:24

busy right off the bat and then I can kind of just coast through a little bit everything mine is very similar a little

1:26:29

okay and then Sunday you have to kind of wrap everything up what is your job so

1:26:37

I'm in charge of almost all of the games at the show basically so if it's a game

1:26:43

then it went through my desk if it's streaming I was in charge of it so that means that of the 21,000 something

1:26:50

events I want to say like eighteen nineteen thousand of them kind of went through me

1:26:56

I thought I had a lot to do with like we're sponsoring the Film Festival this year and we're doing all these games and

1:27:02

we're doing the shows but compared to you I literally knew almost nothing I

1:27:12

mean there's like what I think fifteen employees at GenCon and then I want to

1:27:19

say we have a hundred and fifty like event team members who come out for the

1:27:25

show and some like that you know and they're the people who put on the show or like I guess the the better way to phrase it is they're the people who kind

1:27:32

of put together the infrastructure they execute that plan that will mean they're the people who build the house in which

1:27:38

all the exhibitors and event organizers and attendees make gen con' happen

1:27:43

because like that's the other perspective is like I don't think that we can claim that we make Gen Con what

1:27:50

it is no we make we make the stage and then everybody else shows up and like

1:27:57

you know people are not like men I love Gen Con staff they're like yeah they think they come they come to the show in

1:28:03

their life say that almost every yeah they're like man I love this game I

1:28:08

played at Gen Con you know and I'm like we gave the space for it like we set it up but we're not the people there who

1:28:14

are running the individual tables making the memories for people so what's one of

1:28:21

you share yeah okay so where are we at the show in telophase show and tell fade is everybody brought stuff it we doing

1:28:26

we still have a bunch of headlines but we'll run through those but show and

1:28:31

tell yeah so I was you know I was thinking there was gonna be a lot of like people and brought a lot of board

1:28:37

games and stuff and I didn't want to take up much space plus I don't have a lot of time to go look around the exhibition hall I just don't you know

1:28:43

I'm stuck in one corner of it I know the forest show before the show you literally told me he'll be in the exhibit hall so often already and I went

1:28:50

around before it was open for a relationship on a lie no no no I did

1:28:58

and you're not gonna let me finish okay but this year I went and I got to do

1:29:03

that instead of doing that on Sunday night like I usually end up having to do it I went and did it you know before we

1:29:08

opened first I would we were after he's finished setting up the booth on Wednesday I'm like okay what's where

1:29:13

where am I gonna go and then Thursday in the morning we would you know we went down and looked at the things we wanted

1:29:20

to look at and then I realized like I didn't really grab anything to bring on the show like everybody knows I like the

1:29:25

riff stuff so it's like about a bunch of that you know I got yeah the worst rip

1:29:31

oh by the way you should pat me on the back just for not saying that while our guests were here because have you tried

1:29:39

riffs when they were talking about Funko versus they're like saying oh you can do this I almost was like well maybe you

1:29:48

just need to pitch the funk overstable two riffs crossover so I decided I

1:29:59

wanted to bring it because we've got all these we've got a lot of these bigger game companies and all of you guys know about all these bigger game companies

1:30:05

you know everything there is to know about them because you know who the designers are I don't know any of that stuff yeah okay

1:30:12

I never have and I'd never pretended to you know I know guys who write role-playing games and know guys or make

1:30:17

fantasy novels and I know guys who draw comic books and I went to go see one of my friends who trust comic books and

1:30:23

he's just started a dice company recently in the last it is called Black

1:30:32

Oak workshop and they make these beautiful custom dice yeah they are

1:30:40

really there they're like gorgeous look at this one's called yeah that's called like dracolich or

1:30:47

something like that I have a problem I heard you spit you want to know how much I spend no no no go spend more please

1:30:53

support our exhibitors yeah yeah and 16:13 and I know there is literally a

1:31:02

million dice booths you can go to a chess expose and I mean there's what like nine or ten of them it doesn't there's at least two GenCon specific but

1:31:12

just like your progression as a dice I don't use the word addict but aficionado

1:31:17

that's nice appreciate you start out you're like oh these dice are cool these

1:31:22

guys are cool but after a couple of years your skin fridge likes three or four hundred dice yeah and you need to

1:31:28

start looking into the nooks and crannies for like the weirder dice like the foodie days all right you like I

1:31:34

started in the nooks and crannies did you know there is like dice specific for different like like classes you played

1:31:41

so like it has like lizards this and this company actually hikes dice exactly like that that yeah they've got ones

1:31:48

with little ray guns on I mean ones with arrows this one I specifically brought this is their gunslinger dices that

1:31:55

shows basically the chamber of a revolver yeah and we've got these cool

1:32:04

ones with skulls on them that are they're not out yet that are coming out they're really really neat but Jolly

1:32:11

Blackburn who writes the knights of the dinner-table comic and I some people

1:32:16

might have heard of yes some people might have heard of it if you've ever read a dragon magazine or benig phantom gaming I'm their booth 11:29 actually

1:32:26

they're at ba they're with Kinser and company who does hack master at nights the dinner table and kingdoms of

1:32:32

calamari I think sounds right wait Alomari calamari calamari sounds like a

1:32:39

board game believe that was not meant to be offensive yeah

1:32:46

now that you mention it though if you mention it - jelly black we're in the probably or four homes of calamari or

1:32:55

hopefully yeah we already made that joke like five times bring out those strips so yeah they've got this dice company

1:33:02

and they're making all sorts of cool things I just brought what I could grab is which I spectrum that's plus cool custom dice bags

1:33:08

stranger things stranger things themed like random things they've got a bunch

1:33:17

of selection of dice bags but yeah go over and check out the booth if you're here if not check them out online

1:33:27

anybody donate these are a few of my stranger things joke nobody I've just written that song in my

1:33:33

head well sing it for you next week thank you musical interlude and our

1:34:04

black oak workshop no you brought your experience experience if you wanted me

1:34:11

to bring I knew Derek is gonna bring the good stuff and he's bigger than all your

1:34:21

stuff which our Twitter can help me the chat can help me I need to find a

1:34:26

specific stuffed animal I every every time I try to look for the most of that

1:34:33

Conn stuffed animal especially because I'm in a new state I have a hoarding collection of stuffed animals so I need

1:34:40

a specific gen con' plushie like it you

1:34:46

need a plushie specific gen con' or just a pushy that you can buy a Gen Con that you can buy a Gen Con that most some

1:34:58

places we talked about that so I thought about that so you're basically what you want is you want a plushie that most

1:35:06

embodies Gen Con yes I just buy an AV every year but also I bought a lot of stuff from the Gen Con booth because hey

1:35:12

by the way your orange scheme is great I don't know if you know my favorite color it's boring Orange perhaps something

1:35:24

orange no no no it doesn't have what I mean I want to well I mean I think the

1:35:31

plushie is the squishable like the huge round fat squishables yeah those are usually my bets especially the one that

1:35:37

looks real dumb and it's not like kawaii

1:35:43

like cats and stuff but I want to think it's like oh yeah my dealer haul is just

1:35:54

full of amazing stuff all the stuff is good stuff the stuff that I brought is

1:36:02

like basically yesterday and about 5 p.m. right for the exhibit hall closed I

1:36:08

went and tried to execute on my relatively short shopping list yes sadly I could not get to the booth in time to

1:36:15

get the Delta Green Stamps because they were selling like Delta green like eyes-only stamps and stuff like that I

1:36:21

wanted to get that but they sold out like in 15 minutes I don't feel so bad

1:36:28

yeah but like I was too busy Thursday morning you could have also done the hint in hello oh I got that bird game

1:36:34

when I got here bird game they sold out you out what was it a lap like a minute

1:36:42

and a half it was they brought 600 copies with them okay every 17 seconds

1:36:51

they sold the first like hundred twenty-five before the dealer Hall opened just from I gave it to move will

1:36:59

you give it to our mother-in-law okay and if she needs a game she could play

1:37:07

it was like getting games for people with themes oh my god they were so nice

1:37:12

that's a wonderful booth if you do even though they're sold out go and talk to them they're wonderful people yes so the the other thing I tried to

1:37:19

get that was sold out was the cyberpunk QuickStart oh yeah that's sold out there

1:37:25

I think they're giving a certain amount each day yeah so maybe I can find us

1:37:30

today I don't know yeah I asked my wife to pick it up if she was in exhibit hall it's 1141 I asked her to get it for me

1:37:38

while she was in the exhibit hall with the camera I don't know if she remembered find out you didn't watch cuz we were on no we were here

1:37:46

so the things I was able to pick up is I got a travel case for gravel from broken

1:37:51

token funny I was talking to Cory young last night who's the designer grab well

1:37:58

and he just has had the game he's just like at the nerd night last night he's like look at this isn't so cool oh my

1:38:03

god what's gravel so gravel is a really cool card game where like you are these

1:38:08

ships trying to escape a black hole that looks a little bit like a circular cribbage board to me it is that's

1:38:13

awesome so like normally the game is like played on a much larger board and you got little minis and stuff like that and you

1:38:19

draft these cards that allow you to kind of move towards or away the nearest mass

1:38:27

object I've never seen them do you mind

1:38:35

ever see the full size but I love the travel one already yeah go ahead well

1:38:41

the thing is it has to be assembled it's a broken token token I thought it was

1:38:47

already assembled in there know if you crack it open it doesn't have the game in it either so you crack it open and

1:38:54

here's the assembly instructions here are the sheets that you're gonna have to

1:38:59

you know punch out and then you glue them together also if you saw that giant

1:39:11

dice tower thing with the gears it's got a little cage jadi dice yeah I think he worked on that as well and they just

1:39:17

have some just beautiful amazing accessories for your I'm a big fan of

1:39:26

broken token stuff because like I'm basically the kind of person who's like look if you love if you love a game you

1:39:34

know if you've got a game watch the video no okay then you know get the stuff to pack the

1:39:40

game or to pack the game way better cuz it's gonna deploy faster what mmm

1:39:45

so broken broken token basically makes these kinds of accessories yeah they make inserts that you put into a box

1:39:54

Wow there we go so it's a company like they make they make inserts we put into the to replace

1:40:01

the insert that comes with the game to sort things better they also make if they make a couple replacement boxes

1:40:06

things that I need but don't use no so for now you can use them so basically it allows you to not just have a cardboard

1:40:13

box full of baggies yeah so I'm a big fan and I really love grav well but we

1:40:18

never really play it and I'm thinking that maybe if we get a so two of the

1:40:29

RPGs are picked up or nice black agent solo ops

1:40:35

I've never played nice black Asian remember we talked to yeah we've talked about it yeah I think you know so we

1:40:42

talked sorry I watched about it yeah so you know this is the vehm pyramid yep

1:40:49

you were the spy who find out that vampires are real and this is the one on one RPG version yeah and cars kill

1:40:56

vampires in my unit and it's a solo ops what does that mean it means just one player one GM that's so cool

1:41:01

there's not enough games out there like that you really need to check out consumer confidential yes that's where this came from but that was neat because

1:41:07

it gave you three specific characters cities scenarios everything seems to be

1:41:13

a little meteor yep so then first solo

1:41:20

game they make it a smaller book you know no oh that's

1:41:28

oh you mean their starter set yeah I hear that is great well the new starter

1:42:00

set from 4 D and B is also a one-on-one adventure your good stuff about that but

1:42:06

I have to play sure sure so then the other thing book is a carbon-fibre yes I know beautiful girl

1:42:13

pages oh my gosh yeah like so they have got a couple versions of generation 6

1:42:18

there's the normal version there's the dumb as hell but I love it carbon fiber cover I always want to thank you so much

1:42:25

for buying this for me Derek that was treasure it always don't worry I'll keep it as a space of honor on my show for you okay thanks so

1:42:35

there's that one's like a hundred dollars and then there's a 200 dollar version that has a slightly alternate cover and goes in a slip case of carbon

1:42:42

fiber too but it also gets you dinner so so like when I went yesterday they I

1:42:48

think they were down to like 10 copies of the books no they they had more to

1:42:54

stock but it was like that day they had burned through their whole pile it's a

1:42:59

beautiful book and I inside yet so can i crack it open I cannot buy this book but

1:43:09

I think our show is not great for that like literally I am here to get you guys to spend money so I can feel better

1:43:15

about the money the nice part is you do pay us for that yes but not enough to buy this book yep yeah so where work is

1:43:25

gorgeous if you get a chance I'm just sure okay to get a load of that if you can

1:43:30

it's pretty epic it looks great it's maybe the best art we've ever seen in the Shadowrun book so so those were the

1:43:37

those were some of them like the must buys that I got and I figured that this would go nice on camera and his vision

1:43:42

it is so beautiful very very kind of you

1:43:52

so that was my show-and-tell do we want to try to cover cover a couple s so I

1:44:02

think maybe the first one to cover or the big one to hit is fantasy flights keynote Wednesday I had a ton of news in

1:44:11

it yeah and B is available on the video on demand on the Gen Con TV channel so

1:44:17

you should go watch so after you done here let's talk about it you can go watch them actually do it yeah yeah

1:44:22

you're watching the video first so new stuff keyboards obviously new key for

1:44:28

the treasure now it's new houses I think they announce new houses new mechanics I think the houses are one of the biggest

1:44:34

things because going into something like if you have any experience with magic like magic has been the same five colors

1:44:41

forever they're kind of locked they lock that themselves into that in the beginning the camera they changed at this point so it's cool to see four key

1:44:47

Forge they're really not holding anything sacred they have the saurian

1:44:53

saurian republic which is dinosaurs in case been guess one likes or it's rex or

1:45:00

whatever is their grand leaders those are they're running out of ideas there and then the Star Alliance which is

1:45:07

space people space people it was stopped from this from not alien space people

1:45:14

thanks people well some aliens some people all living together in harmony alien is really just a term that

1:45:19

is relative to the speaker but space people was absolutely hearing a lot of blah blah blah one shared

1:45:28

I hope you know that but you do and it's

1:45:38

just so funny to me they're actually rotating out two of the houses at least for this set so Mars and sanctum you

1:45:45

don't even get to play those anymore yes so you can always play like their idea their concepts for the game is you can

1:45:50

always play any old sets with any new set you can crack the first pack from

1:45:55

this first set you can crack a pack from the third deck the decorating like you mean cuz key Forge is weird

1:46:01

yeah there's no packs you're just cracking a deck you open up the deck and you just like play then against each other and they really want that to

1:46:07

continue it's a very lofty goal with like saying power will never creep and

1:46:13

in a set but for now you can very much play these against each other so you can can still play the old houses what I

1:46:19

think from having played key Forge is I think they came into it they didn't know

1:46:25

exactly what the game was going to be not to say these houses won't come back but I think they've made learnings from

1:46:31

it especially with the Mars Mars was always kind of a weird house they could they weren't sure exactly what was doing of course not all of the houses were

1:46:37

kind of weird yeah I think George is just weird yeah mechanically speaking from people who are super into it like

1:46:43

oh I like this one like this is doing and Mars was kind of off in the corner and never really came together so I think it's kind of cool they might

1:46:50

reimagine their I think they did specifically say that those houses would be back yeah they were trying to

1:46:56

reassure fans of their weird houses yeah the weird mix of the weird game of the weird house I said don't worry about it

1:47:02

it'll come back yes it's cool to see

1:47:12

some new mechanics we're gonna have some new ways to play one of the most interesting thing I coming into all the

1:47:18

specifics of it but there's ways to put more amber on to the characters in the game so it does seem like they're

1:47:24

thinking a little bit about speeding things up like making sure that the game continues to flow instead of getting

1:47:30

stuck but without breaking that balance so that they were going for at the very beginning so the two houses are gone is

1:47:35

there a story reason for that do you know just a plague of both their houses need

1:47:43

a store of story reason I think I think so I think that I mean I think that just shows good game doesn't know but like

1:47:48

like keyboard is just such a weird eclectic mix Marvel right for your

1:47:55

smaller movies like sometimes or like oh my gosh the world is on fire again we're stores like Thor is on leave for I had a

1:48:04

knee injury you knows on the bench for this time so you kind of hand wave a little bit to make sure this well so in

1:48:11

addition to more key Forge they also talked about more Arkham Horror there's

1:48:17

what Arkham Horror last hour I think is what it's called do we did I don't I didn't have a chance to watch the whole

1:48:23

thing do they go into what do you tell Matt do you know pretty I think it's a

1:48:28

new game I think it was a for when I was able to glance at like a new cooperative

1:48:34

game I think one wonderful players but combat focused so I I'm kind of wonder

1:48:39

if it's gonna be a Kickstarter board game kind of thing yeah you know where you're exploring a board fighting

1:48:45

monsters that kind of thing so they also announced Genesis vault well they did a

1:48:56

turn for it but it's it's the the DMS guild model for the Genesis system same

1:49:04

is the same way that a storyteller is involved and you know some a lot of programs have been working with drive

1:49:09

through RPG to allow people to publish for a system or a setting in it you know

1:49:15

through drive through everything then share the revenue so they announced for Genesis and specifically of interest to

1:49:23

me includes the Android setting so launched yesterday okay the Android

1:49:29

setting is the one that used to be something else right they used it for netrunner netrunner new Angeles Android

1:49:38

the board game mainframe like there's a couple different games from it was from the

1:49:44

netrunner venture okay yeah that's why that's why I was familiar yeah so that you're

1:49:49

allowed to make you know role-playing game books adventures scenario books like content for the Android setting for

1:49:56

Terron off I think is their fantasy setting okay holy in the Genesis system

1:50:01

so I'm really interested to see how that's gonna go and what's that called I don't remember

1:50:07

foundry Genesis foundry Genesis foundry I actually want to write that down

1:50:15

that's the big new game announcement yeah so fantasy flight of course is the only company that can do lcg's because

1:50:23

they have a trademark on the living card game yes so now they have the new one themed in marble I was talking to Brad

1:50:31

Andrus who's one of the key forged developers worst for fantasy flight and the way he described it as a more

1:50:38

approachable card game which i think is really cool because as like I definitely want to try comfortable like

1:50:44

approachable I do like I think things that the reason I never got to get into hell 5 are though is a slight lack of

1:50:51

approachability with the fan base yes for l5 are for a lot of these games

1:50:57

there's history behind them yeah yes it's very intense is a very high barrier

1:51:02

to entry to get into them so it sounds like this one is going to be a little less complex than what's going on but

1:51:08

still have that cooperative living card game so you had a long talk with him yesterday morning I think no I just

1:51:16

bumped into it oh okay well then somebody did because I'm pretty sure we had a long sequence in the studio with

1:51:24

an interview about the Marvel LCG so so if people want more we have the video on

1:51:30

demand of the fan of Fantasy Flight keynote from Wednesday ok and then in

1:51:37

Gen Con studio we should have the video on demand of the particular interview that went over some more details

1:51:45

so I might actually get that card game mm-hmm I'm sure a lot of people are

1:51:50

gonna get that guy I mean I understand the property already the IP is not weird or foreign to me in any way I can

1:51:56

I don't have to read 27 splat books to get the idea of what the story's about I don't have to worry about weird

1:52:01

culturally-appropriate of houses I can instead play superheroes which is just

1:52:08

my so we've got a we've got a few minutes left why don't we run through a bunch of different the game

1:52:14

announcements yeah we don't my booth

1:52:19

shift starts in a minute we don't have a whole lot of details in a lot of these yeah but we have quirky circuits which

1:52:26

somebody added the notes of it's the mind but you play as a Roomba yes I played last night I wasn't too sure

1:52:32

about it but it was cute with the minis I didn't know anything about the gameplay but it is you have the cards in

1:52:37

your hand of like if you move forward how many if you turn and you can only have a little bit of information and

1:52:42

then you're working cooperatively to do your path oh does reenact the Roomba thing where you go into a corner and you

1:52:49

turn and look cool and frustrating you

1:52:54

get to have a cat right on top of you and that's picture taken the cat rides on the Roomba and then messes you up so

1:52:59

you're the Roomba yeah and the cats like messing up here so that's a real thing I didn't just that's a part of the game I

1:53:09

was really just being the d-bag right there they matched you in met you

1:53:16

C Mon announced a cyberpunk car game a cyberpunk of the property yeah they're

1:53:22

doing a card game based on that a lot of people freaked out that it was not the rebirth of netrunner

1:53:27

which would have warmed my heart but this looks like this is a new game when you say a lot of people do you mean you a little bit maybe okay real talked it

1:53:37

looks like it's a card game that is not not a lot of details but doesn't they didn't announce it as an LC g or

1:53:44

collectible game or anything like that so it might just be like a game kind of experience okay so that's

1:53:51

interesting Warhammer Games Workshop announced

1:53:56

aeronáutica Imperialis which is basically like an air combat fighter jet

1:54:03

game set in the Warhammer 40k universe okay they had Warhammer underworlds beasts grave and you ready Oh a new

1:54:12

blood ball team also it's an actual I'm

1:54:26

happy that we have a stream see how long we can maintain mentioning riffs and blood have you tried riffs so there's

1:54:38

also a new more Clank there's a Clank acquisitions incorporated in version

1:54:45

coming out yeah I think they did an expansion or it was a bargain question but anyway like they've done something

1:54:50

but now there's a full acquisition or a kink clink coming out there's also Clank Legacy coming out

1:54:57

with some details yes of course there's a legacy version coming out upper deck

1:55:04

just talked about the now that's what you upward I protect the card company I

1:55:09

was thinking no upper deck has a new encounters for double-oh-seven oh yes

1:55:16

yes James Bond encounters yeah and they have up they have a booth in the exhibition hall and it's rad because

1:55:22

it's got the he's got the circular doorway so you can stand it and get your picture taken while you're pretending to hold a gun yeah and hum the music

1:55:29

apparently there's two more Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle games coming yeah as well there should be there's popular properties in the world

1:55:36

and now adults are entity Ninja Turtles because we all found them when we were

1:55:41

five yeah jasio Games is releasing a whole new card game system apparently and the

1:55:47

property that's supporting it as this first roll out is my hero academia

1:55:55

that is they have ticketed games available in the exhibit hall with or in the event okay I'm supplied overlay I

1:56:01

have $40 worth of generics just in case I want to go ghost go sign up for the

1:56:06

tournament let us know how it goes there's a bunch of them running all weekend okay so yes so yes I will do

1:56:13

that yep there's also whiz kids this might be really exciting for you it is I are I

1:56:18

rented it ahead of time I'm Noah whiskas is really seeing unpainted transformers

1:56:28

no out yet they are leasing them they haven't released them you can only buy

1:56:36

the stuff you see a couple of couple more things fog of low fog of love is

1:56:42

leaving Walmart it's gonna be non-exclusive now we can uh we can buy it in real places I've not that Walmart

1:56:48

using the great place it exists no has anybody played Fargo wolf no okay you can rely at Walmart I almost feel like

1:56:54

we should actually pull a it on this try because really we know just and finally

1:57:02

this is a topic I'm pretty sure that we're gonna have to dig into an extreme detail Oh but apparently watch see is be

1:57:10

doing really big changes to how magic is judged like the details are coming up

1:57:16

very slowly and very weirdly yeah let's make sure we dig into that yeah yep so there's apparently a lot of changes

1:57:22

coming to that uh we'll investigate that yeah if you want to know if those are you keep you keep tuned the table takes

1:57:27

every week and we will fill you in what time it's gonna be at all eleven on what

1:57:36

day Friday on what channel I feel like I'm being quizzed

1:57:44

you guys I I think that we are out of time we are group coming in and we want

1:57:50

to make sure that they have plenty of time to set up so that is it for table tanks for this Friday live from Gen Con

1:57:55

we are so happy to be here if you see us at the con we will probably be around and really busy yeah I got to go get to

1:58:01

the booth so I'll be had for the next two hours over a booth 100 that's where I'm gonna be alright so she'll be on the

1:58:11

stream later yeah you'll be in the booth and then you'll be on the gin sovereign state you are gonna be in the studio at

1:58:17

some point and I will be running around trying to keep things from lighting on fire right or putting them out if they

1:58:24

do is that when I'm on I should just light all the fires and yes remember

1:58:29

that while you're on the stream I can see where you are and I know how to find you so yeah that's it for table takes I

1:58:36

like to thank our guests ha Chris and Lindsey for coming on and show us what they're all about today we will see you

1:58:42

next week and have a great con thank you [Applause]

1:58:53

you





Raw Transcript without timestamps:

good morning and welcome to table tix presented by Gen Con we are here live at

the convention I am Christian I'm joined today by Banzai Derrick and Emma we've

got some special guests that a lot of stuff to talk about so let's get going if we can how's everybody doing first

good con so far I mean we do the craziest anybody has anybody gotten any

sleep yep but some you'll have to tell me how that went I'm not sure I've even

laid my head down yet which is why my hair is still perfect so uh we're gonna

start off to do with a guest that we've got a hawk Robinson with us today hockey is a part of a RPG research and the

president of some founder of RPG research president of RPG therapeutics

nonprofit and for-profit he's been called by many the grandfather of therapeutic gaming although he doesn't

look old enough to be a grandfather tell him my boys no hurry and you've been

working on a new project that we actually we've been talking about it before we even knew you were doing it oh

yeah okay well first of all I'm not doing it I'm supporting it and my advisor for it and it's a documentary on

role-playing games in prison which yeah we spoke about this a few weeks ago before we even knew that this folk

existed oh and oh really yeah yeah basically I've been both of us have been

very interested on how like RPGs affect people from different backgrounds and also how it betters people to like take

them out of their situation and then apply it to like a fictional person that they can learn to improve from and also

it's just like it's a nice escape it's like I'm almost a meditative kind of thing and the it was funny because the

conversation actually was like I think it came up in a news article we were ashamed because we try to figure out what to cover each week in our weekly

show so we have we're here every week not a drinker not a we're we should

cover this and like both Banzai and and Christian were really like excited about the topic so they're gonna like go into

research and like yeah like why don't you spend some time figuring that out next week he comes back he's like alright so I think I haven't in you know

I know it's funny because the reason

that became initially interested in this kind of research is because of meeting you years ago like back in 2009 and

right what you were yeah I was against it at spoke on I think right well and

you guys were doing also you may be that was later you and Scott were at some coffee shop doing riffing and stuff oh

yeah yeah yes but yeah yeah I think it was because it spoke on or something

like that yeah and I've been interested in that in in therapy you know gaming

therapy ever since and I thought you know prison being near and dear to my

heart for no good reason is a clear to hear about that as far as their personal

connection as well and I'll share a little bit about - oh no I my father did

some time in prison when I was younger until I was older so he was there for a long time and they were there was a

group there that kept getting in trouble oh really because they kept because they

were trying to get because they were trying to gain right yeah cuz I've been banned since the 80s at most prisons there yeah they were loosening up and

then in 2011 there was a an appeals court ruling that said superintendents can arbitrarily banned anything without

having to prove cause they can just feel that there's a security threat they don't have to prove it

20:11 really anything goes in Michigan you've seen her tightening again at one point Washington state was banning like

all books non-gaming books all goes back and forth because it's so arbitrary you

get this these it's really inconsistent across the country one thing it was consistent but the u.s. is not really

about consistency and he was also talking about the two different types of

prisons when you're when you're kind of pitching this idea those who actually have a rehabilitative interest that

they're expecting they're gonna go in with they're not lifers they're going to go back into society and if we're going to do that most of us

who care about rehabilitation I'm a Washington state registered recreation and usually recreation therapists the background of music therapy neuroscience

and research psychology doesn't want you

to he's not like a focused optimized

character but he can do a bit every so anyway the spectrum from rehab to just

purely punitive so different prisons are different areas on that spectrum and the rehabilitative ones are pretty open to

having different programs that will help prepare inmates to go back out into the

world have the social skills the coping mechanisms the job transitions the housing transitions there's are so many

things that once you're locked up for any period of time your outside world falls apart and you with a few rare

exceptions when you do get out whether it's parole or you did your time you

know it's like Blues Brothers yeah there was one person there to pick them up if there's nobody there to pick you up you may not even have money for a bus

ride home right you should be in the middle a lot of prisons are put cuz nobody wants in their backyard Yeah right out in the middle of nowhere you

don't know where you could reoffending psyche yeah so you can you can end up

starting with nothing and now the rehabilitated ones try to offer resources to help that transition

because if you don't the recidivism rate is almost a hundred percent in that said that's what I want to talk about

specifically going recidivism rate back in yeah yeah how is how is our how our RPGs affecting that so Roblin games

themselves the research is light and again RPG research is a 501 C 3 non-profit volunteer run we have over 70

volunteers spanning five continents now we had seven two years ago but I own research since 83 running programs in

school since 85 and the therapeutic setting since 2004 and then I was always partnering with different organizations

but then when we got our 501 C 3 a few years ago that's when we started actually bringing in long-term volunteers and the research on actual

role playing games in prison specifically is very little except for related to this documentary where it's

you know a lot of case studies and such but as far as aggregate data however so you have to look at the broader what's close to it they call them creative

programs and creative programs can include acting improv all kinds of

theater types the Shakespearean library I've actually I've actually gone and taught theater class right and you know

am I now new brother-in-law Joe Coonan runs the classes for Jet City improv in

Seattle okay and then he's on one of our shows too there's a character stuff but so they run them too are there if I

won't see three and they run in problems but he's a streamer now mostly they're

mostly just at the Jet City improv but he's at one of our shows so we love those guys yes yeah Jose Jose awesome

and he officiated for the wedding too all right help bury his sister doc we're assuming that you have a personal reason

why you are like basically backing and yeah so we work a lot with what because

we do five days a week research two days a week and we work a lot with at-risk youth incarcerated populations from

mental health and other things transition programs alternative schools

we literally drive a wheelchair accessible bus and trailer gaming rooms to party in the trailer corners and say

come on in and learn how to play games and you know at-risk youth means they're at risk of not finishing school becoming

homeless and or ending up in prison as adults right yeah and you can be an at-risk adult too you can be 30 so for

example middle-aged white males are extremely high risk for all those things happening as well if certain

demographics information happens and there's actually less of a support infrastructure because it's the majority

right so they that does that a sports director so they actually end up with a very high risk of ending up in prison

and such so in homelessness and such so I had an abusive father very abusive and

he was friends with the sheriff hearing so nothing ever happened there he was actually a psychologist and everything

hypnotherapist did a lot of interesting things but was very abusive through

through windows and walls and stuff like that so there was an abusive background my mom divorced him got me away from that eventually when I was older but a

lot of you know at first seven years are fundamental years so that set the stage for certain things and then ADHD and

some Aldi's etc so I would definitely qualify by today's language as the back in the 70s as at-risk youth and really

did struggle I did not I really started getting in fights all the time I never threw the first punch but I've been

training martial arts since I was four also you're six foot eight I'm now securely but I was okay I was second grade sixth graders were fighting me and

so it was bad I went to Utah's only non-mormon the whole school so that minority think it was bad I was

in so many fights a year and so lots and lots of that going on and then as a teenager started to manifest signs of

bipolar and such not knowing that right and so getting more and more impulsive not sleeping for days at a time then

then just crash and then it so all these things were happening and what I did notice in hindsight is

when I was gaming with my friends and such and I was gaming quite a bit things were going quite well it provided

some structure it provided I am a very hyperactive high-energy person I get I've met constantly getting it gave a

great resource for my energy and I naturally didn't need to sleep much anyway and when every else is asleep you

got to go do something what I'm gonna do next yeah and if there wasn't gaming and other things and hobbies and such then it could lead to trouble I did get in a

lot of trouble for basically you know stealing cars and getting police chases and stuff like that

no no violent crime or anything but it was bad and eventually after half a dozen times in our jail getting

therapeutic help getting diagnosis you know etc started to turn that around in

my early 20s but everybody there in the probation system etc and I and I was

looking at 17 years before parole if I ended up in prison I was hovering right on that brink and one of the points we

were all whole bunch of people were brought in to rage like hundreds of people and they overpopulated the jail

cell they got a lot of trouble with the civil rights unions after this but that that came later and there were 32 of us

packed into a 16-man cell in quarantine and the place was locked down because just before a black gang and Hispanic

gang you just had a fight stab each other with the broom and dustpan inside mm-hm so all of the cells were in lockdown you

couldn't have phones television books commissary anything and everything was

double capacity people were sleeping on the cement floors only a few had cops on the floors I came in and you know

asserted my alpha Ness and somebody gave me their bunk without my having to ask so I was okay so this tall guy

I was a jerk about it but you gotta set it but everybody was on edge he had heroin addicts going through withdrawal

not getting their medication it was bad it was a powder keg waiting to go off and at the time gaming was going on you

know I hadn't been gaming for a little while but I bribed said we gotta do something so he had I was given a little yellow post-it with a pencil and I said

anyway I do a role-playing game well I

wasn't gonna do all we can do different groups and you pick six or eight they're interested and they were all hesitant

but I got the one guy who recalled chief who was Native American Navajo somebody

from from Vietnam somebody it was really multi-ethnic yeah and we gathered around

and and I made picklists so I pick a member you blind just pick that was how we did a randomization on one to 100

because and there's middle-earth roll planed yes but a fairly simple logical that people get percentages mm-hmm and

we did a very simple character sheets just whip them up on there do the pick list to make your stats it took about 15

minutes do a light version of murder and so we're playing and these guys are calming down and just they're focusing

on that and they're learning to work together and all the rest of the cell is

starting to listen and to watch hard to

ignore it was yeah yeah try to keep it down but is there some people try and sleep and stuff but and then we want to

take a break no man please don't stop this is the only reason I'm coping busy was going through heroin withdrawal and everything and so I just switched to

another group and we just and so for half a week I think it was we were lockdown

it just kept doing that and ourselves Owen didn't blow up during that time again there were a lot of lawsuits after

so that was the most extreme personal connection to that yeah in addition to now so over the years I finished my

probation you know they always said once a crook always the correct ones in the system you never get out right that's mostly true unfortunately without a lot

of resources and some luck and a lot of termination because once I was out on probation nobody would hire me right

right you pay the fines I had huge fines and so I you know I was working 7-eleven

I worked every shift I could I was homeless three times you know literally in a tent on the mountainside in the winter and but somehow pulled it off and

it was the first time because I I flunked eighth grade dropped out of high school did my GED etc it was the first

time I was I believe a long-term goal so I had seven years to pay the fines at it in four years and two months I was like

50 grand in fines what's that Congrats we're doing in four

years versus the seven yeah well I figured the longer it was the greater the risk of something going wrong on the

right yeah so it yeah I just did a bit of the best I could and it was the first time I learned what later I learned the

concept to begin with the end in mind where you set a long-term goal and then every choice you make along the way is

towards that goal well role-playing gaming represents at all time when you set up your quests and such yeah you're generally once you set up the seed you

begin the end of mine now what do we do as a group to find the way we don't know all the details between I'm sorry I feel

like a whole lot of gaming groups that I have run for could use that talk before we sit down on the table well that's all

about Tuckman's theory of group dynamics forming storming norming and performing

node you get a few minutes out of this guy yeah most groups are stuck in forming and storming and have a lot of

trouble getting to the norming and performing so forming is you come together you've never met before no prior history no grudges and everybody's

usually more polite it depends I feel

extremely seen but they you know generally people try to be on their better behavior first when they come

together mm-hmm then at a certain point as the task is not getting done tempers start to build

and people start fine you're gonna do it I'm gonna do it no I'm gonna do it no and you start to buy and every then is trying to figure out who's gonna do what

people are not necessary is nice but you try to get through it eventually if all goes well you'll get to the norming

stage where everybody has their role you have to spell it out everything is like okay George you really get ready

for the the door and you get ready to back me up with your you know your magic missle and with your bow and arrow I'm gonna stealth over here and take care of

the trap and you have to verbalize it and coordinate it but now you've got a pretty effective group at the norming phase the performing phase is where that

all just becomes automatic and then that's the best opportunities for flow state making a flow state along any of

these and you showed it in in dorkness Rising where you guys are playing they look up it's 2:00 a.m. and they're like

wow I had no idea that much time went by that's that's an indicator of flow state when that happens in anybody who's game

for any amount of time has had that experience and all of these things it's

not so a lot people like well this is prisoners shouldn't have a good time right now we're to the punitive side instead of rehab so we're talking about

developing social skills impulse control you know developing a network a real

social network through gaming and such you know an alternative to gang and violent groups when you get discharged

we've worked with groups of large mental health facility on the west coast they have kids who are put in because of

drugs or game violence and then they usually have a mental health diagnosis and we helped them with a transition plan we introduced them to a gaming

group in town they get a day pass on an escort join the group if they want to it's always challenged by choice and now

they've got a new peer group that they're building relationship with before they're even discharged and that gives them something else to do now they might go a little obsessive about it at

first looking over all the rules earning but where do you want them putting their energy but also yeah how many of us

don't go obsessive when we first get into either a hobby or a game you'll be surprised how few do now one of the

things that I've always weird as much as I'm involved gaming since 77 I don't really feel that I'm a part of the

gaming bubble okay I've always felt like I'm looking at it from the outside even when I was in it I like our Vice

President he's well connected with all the community and has always been very part of it I went through a whole closet

gaming period for a decade professionally I had to because I would here so here I was back in the 90s

homeless by 98 or 99 I was CIO and by 2000 CTO chief technology officer for

companies I was working with fortune 500 companies and Barnes & Noble Microsoft IBM work we are

out of board meetings with them yeah and so you're not talking about D&D during those board meetings right okay okay I

overheard is the stigma of the 80s people who lost getting raises or

promotions because they found out they were gamers between the satanic panic

and it just being considered nerdy yeah well it's better than it used to be with Big Bang Theory etc but they're still

mocking gamers yeah it's still there I because we take the bus and trailer and

I've got RPG as my license plate now so I'm no longer in the closet okay that's off yeah but good ten years though if

you have d20 on your collar yeah for the browser yeah no definitely I'm out here

but I don't think my career would have been successful if I had told people

about one of my favorite pastimes just that's the way it was now less of an issue and yet the majority people are

not gamers sorry guys it's true I do this and so everybody's in this bubble we're kind of preaching to the choir and

don't realise so we go out on the street we go to libraries and stuff and we literally have parents dragged their kids away from the door who want to come

play saying we don't let we don't play those kinds of activities those kinds of people kill people why that just

happened in March okay I've documented it's all on our website and everything on RPG research the there was a survey

done just a few years ago of social workers okay these are the people who control what services are given to people all ages yeah yeah

somewhere between 60 to 80 percent of them responded that they believed gamers were psychopaths

that's 60 to 80 percent of surveyed social workers so there's still a stigma

out there I've gotten a grief for bringing this up why why do you bring up the past it's not the past it's not the past right and so every

time we do presentation for a facility and such we start out the history of role-playing gaming shooting down the

myths with all the research that disproves all of it and that's what start with the research of oh suicide

rate of gamers is like one-fifth to one-tenth that of gamer's the meaninglessness levels of

college students is like 47% only 17% for gamers at the same peer group and

meaninglessness means you have some direction and some purpose and some connection we are more likely to succeed in life psychopathology

is higher in non-gamers than in gamers yeah the exact opposite on the way and

and he's got a need to prove that this is a little bit of research that is out

there just proving the negative there are there are certainly some gamers online who are doing their best to live

up to those stereotypes their individual

already can be yeah very vocal like individuals and they like examples more

than they like statistics I know yeah well so as far as yeah and so I have a gazillion anecdotes for any particular

population just about you could you can name between ages 2 to 90 plus years old

so if you have any research that shows like the recidivism rate falling because of right so sorry thanks back bringing

it back regular back around but so creative programs of different states have run their own research to see if

these programs were worth it and they found depending on the state in the program anywhere from 20 up to 80%

reduction recidivism so recidivism is that you get discharged either on parole probation or you've

done your time within 18 to 36 months most especially if they've been multiple

convictions that led to prison will reoffending the system one way or

another that that's just statistically it's the way it is once you're in that's a once in the system never out of the system most the people I know from my

late teens early 20s are dead or lifers because they went in so many times the three-strikes thanks you're right yeah I

was one of the few I know one other who got out the system but he's his and he's

shattered he became so institutionalized he did go to prison and was beaten badly ribs sticking out

things like that we moved him up from from the house from prison and such and

you know took years to even get back to some functional level and such and he's still just half the person he used to be

and he was a dear friend so it that is needs to change yeah and there isn't

enough awareness now I do agree we need a prisons I am okayed that there's a punitive part

I needed that was my wake-up call first time I was sitting in a holding cell and then I needed a few more to by force to

the head because I was about six times one time truly I didn't do anything wrong I wanted to pay a fine they had a

warrant it was somebody else but it had the same name the guy had killed cops out FBI no I swear so but there was one

of those times a true truly wasn't my fault the other five times yeah okay but I'm sitting there I had a major white

knight complex because I'm with my dad and everything I'd always write I was a guy who fought the gangs whenever stuff somebody been picked on

I'd go inter see because my martial arts background so I had a real white knight complex and then I'm sitting in jail

because I had just gotten a chase for stealing gas and stuff and I doing this

isn't the person I wanted what's going on mm-hmm and so that was the first thing in it but it took a little bit to fully sink

in and and and overcome that you know now I'm father three adult boys I've

been successful in multiple careers and now I've got five little company you've got a nonprofit organization that's been

in yeah so I'm giving back to society right like did turn it around so tell me

about the Kickstarter yes so there's this wonderful Kickstarter which is not my kicks are just to be clear some

people have that confusion right but obviously there's a personal connection so this is Elizabeth declares project she is a documentarian of ten plus years

she's done a few small bits that we've seen on YouTube and vice and elsewhere on inmates and convicts and such and

role-playing gaming and they've they've been very popular I've seen them do in the realm advice yeah that's all her nice so that's the same person excellent

and so I set up a quick website for them RPG do seek amor RPG documentary comm you the one goes the same thing because

the kickstarter is too long to tell people to find it so you go there and it links to the cook kickstarter so she's

been following these prisoners for years and aggregating all of this and she shot a lot of this film already right but and

this is in California a lot of legal battles there she's in San Francisco this spans different parts california and she hits on different parts around

the country but she specifically has many interviews with with these guys they're now out you know and there and

but they've been it covers the legal battles all kinds of interesting challenges just wakes everybody up to what the process is and these are human

beings yes a lot of people want to go there are no longer humans they don't deserve the right to be considered that so since a lot of it's been shot as the

kickstarter mostly covering post and distribution and still follow-up interviews some legal stuff things like

that and then all the post-production so it's just so she can finish it and what's the what's the goal on that kickstarter 60,000 60,000 and you've got

another week to go on twelve days left just under 20 mm and of stuck there this

last day out there you know take a look

at the kickstarter at the very least and RPG documentary calm will get you there very easily very cool yeah before you go

I'd really like to talk a bit about cuz you you're part of so many different groups and helping you know anybody who's involved in therapeutic gaming

you're always giving them a shout out or projects yeah by the way Hawk is

actually tough number remember yeah

number one we've had that for years thanks to Ben Dobbins zombie or person

entertainment Chris ode and yourself for being so kind to give us that space so

blast me we only kind of Thursday we're come to Gen Con well we only we only found out a few days ago that we work we

had a guests at our booth before and they were you break it by the way Larry and Mercedes I'm sorry you couldn't be here

I miss you terribly but we were really glad to have you and give you the opportunity we drove 2,000 miles Monday

through Wednesday straight through together yep stop for three hours take three hour breaks here and there and eat

snacks the whole way yeah pretty much yeah and then you tried to help us set up the booth these good people and he

supports good conscience I want two dots RPG tell me yes so dots RPG wearing the label here probably if you come to the booth you

can see examples they make Braille dice and other accessibility equipment for gaming we're big accessibility advocate

so we drive around with this bus and trailer I just didn't an eight-state 26 day tour in the fall taking the RPG bus and the RPG trailer

all around the western United States trying to raise awareness about accessibility inclusiveness in gaming and it's a very visible the bus has got

artwork of gamers all over it in the black back of the trailer 26-foot trailer tire with a ramp so we can get

about three wheelchairs into it mhm and then a 22 foot bus with the wheelchair lifts so we can get about one or two wheelchairs into that and comfortable

with couches and all that for others and we have the Braille dice we have dice towers we have special pen holders

because we worked with muscular dystrophy cerebral palsy etc all sorts of accessibility equipment so that as

many people as possible can get the benefits that research shows are found from role-playing games from the social skills problem-solving turn-taking

impulse control the list goes on and on and on empathy empathy is a huge one that's one of the biggest ones we need

for prisons I didn't quite finish 20 to 80 percent reduction now the federal

government's offering upwards of 20 million dollars for prisons to to bring in more of these creative program knows

that a 20 to 80 percent reduction in recidivism and they're putting money out

there and the prisons are taking it it's worth the money for the 20 let alone the 80 yes yeah right any amount yeah and

these are not expensive to do no role-playing game it's not an expensive tabletop a broken he's not

expensive

a big difference between being an expensive hobby yeah and being a hobby that allows you to be as expensive as

you you don't need the mammoth bone dice creative out there for you you want but

I do that I do need do you have those because we want to buy them yeah you

have them yeah yeah there's men we'll put ice in there oh come on give me some mammoth so

so dots RPG is going to be at PAX West you couldn't make it here Jess Dempsey is the president of that we don't know

what that is we don't know what that is

and so I'm by proxy representing and I did she they recently brought me on their board and I helped them form their

501c3 which finally a lot of hassles out here on your wrong time

yes helping out another company out of the kindness of your heart several yes several yes in addition to

running your own business so uh that's yeah that's amazing I could easily talk to you for another hour about this but

Robinson you can check them out at our PC RPG research calm importantly go to

RPG documentary art but if you're interested in volunteering or finding out more about therapeutic gaming this

is absolutely the guy to talk we'd even talking about RPG professionals where hey game masters twenty to sixty an hour

but it's really difficult Spokane

Eastern logic showers east of slow will

prevent you to come on the show maybe another time but actually yeah because like we said we this is like something

that we are like when we are actually doing those talks would you mind being a guess that your martial arts training

should have prevented that he's using our own energy against all

the time we got free David thank you so much for coming on the show and talk to us I feel like I know more than when I

started today yeah maybe that's just my brain cells reactivating after last night's activities yeah I don't know but

thank you so much for being here we'll see you at the booth later bud check him out if you hear at the konnex

we've got more guests I mean my favorite part about doing stuff at the convention is that we get to have yes everyone's

everyone's here so I'd like to welcome Chris Rowland's and Lindsey tokuda from Funko games hey guys have a seat let's

talk so it is a big GenCon for Funko games oh yes yes it's also the first GenCon for Funko games the best the

first the most the mostest yeah superlatives old stuff so so let's get

started tell us a little bit about the game quick overview of Funko verse and it's anything any intros you'd like to

give for this sure so the first game

from Funko games our studio has been a ton of games previously Disney

villainess horrified jaws which are here at Gen Con this year so we have a long history of making games with some IPS

and so Funko came to us and they're like well we want to make a game as well so we started working with them on Fogo verse and then we you know found out

that our companies are really aligned in our values so we want to start a game studio how about we just acquire your

company and you can be our games together that was what we did it's been a blast ever since so Funko verse is the first

game of Funko Games publishing it ourselves as a miniature strategy game

adorable we wanted to the to the fans of

Funko you know really want we wanted to make a love letter I think if you didn't

that probably would have revealed like if the first game that Funko puts out doesn't have the cute little big-headed

dudes you're gonna have what I also loved was when you came to show us the game at Gen Con I was like wouldn't it

be funny if your game was this and you're like it is here it is I was like

but it was really important to us that our first game was as well and so we

created sort of this miniature strategy game system there are six games in the

system there's two Harry Potter games to DC Comics games that are sort of set in the Gotham part of DC Comics and then we

have a Rick and Morty very unexpected no

look at my appeal issue like yup no girls your same like that you put a lot

of love into it and it's not just an IP getting slapped on but that your history with game design you've used IPS in the

past and they've all shown that love oh my gosh yeah you know I mean that's part of the white your games are great

I work at our studio so I can speak to other studios but I know for us you know we're working on some of the most

beloved IPS we talked about jaws you talk about horrified which we publish with our partner Robbins Berger you know

these IPS are beloved and we're true fans of these properties and so we're trying to create the games as gamers that we'd want to play based on those

problems and judging by your past games that has shown over and over again that's why you're perfect for that job as far as I'm concerned you know I'd be

like that I grab the press releases from the press room and you guys are behind

like all the big releases from Robbins burger this year right yeah I mean malindi can speak to our relationship

with Robbins burger over over the years because she's been a producer at FPC for a longer time than I have yeah I mean

well this year we have obviously big ones villainous jaws horrified yeah the

new villainous one is just amazing but yeah so we've been working with Robbins burger for about 13 years or something

like that because before they were Robins burger they were the Wonder Forge and so Robbins burger acquired Wonder

Forge I think it was about four or five years ago I don't know the exact date sorry

so yeah but we have been partners with them and we have been working with them closely for a very long time and so they

they were able to get these incredible licenses they came to us and we said yes yes and you know we do what we do we put

all the love and devotion into every single game working with an IP and

taking capsule eating the feeling of that IP and also for a lot of people

love that IP aren't necessarily gamers so like matching those audiences and still developing something that a gamer

would look at and enjoy yeah absolutely and every licensure that we work with

has been wonderful and not everybody comes from a gamer background and so we you know bring him into the fold when we

talk to them about games and our love and our passion for them and then they were like oh yeah we we have to do this we have to work together

then you know we surprise them with our depth of knowledge you know when we talk about working on a Harry Potter property

you know these ones are based off the films so you know maybe I have seen

Harry Potter about 800 times I've got my

slipper excuse me hufflepuff you know there's a name here and I even I even took the when they when the Pottermore

came out with like you know what house are you in like the America school I even came out with like the horn sir bit one so like yeah that's really a

Slytherin matter where I go the southerner here we got to keep at least one Hufflepuff around to tip you to

either fall guy for whatever we're doing yeah clearly how is the weird kid so you

know we obviously bring a lot of love into the licenses and we get to know these characters very intimately and then so working with the licensers it's

it's really great because they recognize that love and so they're there they're 100% to support us and to also bring in

their knowledge and love for the license as well and from a game design perspective I mean we started every

project with like you know really absorbing what we're working on and saying like what are the elements of this that we really want to translate

because we're making an adaptation always easy to do that and so for us we

always try to highlight the really key elements of that and sometimes you get something like Lindsay and I were

working together as a designer and producer on drastic park danger for a Robbins burger and so that was something

where I was like you know I want to create this game where you're telling the story again because really what's

important about Jurassic Park to me is this idea of what would you do if you were on the island you know but when you

look at something like jaws which we did this year it's a little bit more true to the actual narrative of the film and

hits those beats and it's like two acts and all those things and so what we're getting into the Funko verse you know

we're trying to create one Universal system that we can apply all of these characters can live within and so you

know you have one system that that works for Golden Girls that works for ya Batman that works for Harry Potter that

works for Rick and Morty and so really we're trying to distill these characters down into their essence because every single character feels unique

and you know the Golden Girls you know as far as their their powers and abilities go are just as interesting if

not more interesting in my opinion than some of the Batman characters Harry Potter Opie is what you're saying I want

to play it was the Golden Girls thing

and you know you guys talked about it being from left field that was really important to tone the story of Funko verse because Funko's motto is

everybody's a fan of something and so we wanted to come up with this first slate of like of our miniatures game and we

wanted to have at least one license in there that proved to people that anything is possible yeah masterstroke as far as I'm

concerned yeah and so and so that's what Golden Girls is there for but at the same time I was like well it'd be hilarious if people went to tournaments

and all these hardcore tournament players had to play Golden Girls and so we gave them a lot of love and make sure that you know there's those characters

fit a niche that other characters don't and so blanche for example she has her highboys ability which lets her move

towards rivals she ruled far distance towards rivals she introduces herself and then she has flirt which is she can

use against someone and that deprives their team of resources they're kind of being distracted and and then her trait

is called devastatingly beautiful because of Atlanta and so it makes all

the enemies that are around her their challenges are weakened because she's just so distracting and so so but but

because of that her characters one of you know from a mechanic's standpoint is one of the most destructive characters in the game and you know fits a role on

your team's well so this [ __ ] this is the first gaming convention that this

has been because it was introduced at San Diego comic-con dacquoise many gamers so you have people on the floor playing this game what has the reception

been like I mean it's pretty tremendous yeah yeah you know it's it's been great

partnering obviously with Gen Con this is our first sort of convention has Funko games another funk

several years ago as part of the convention selling pop figures but there at every convention selling pop figures

but for us it's been really just a pleasure to be able to be in room 141

doing the demos you know just singing the demos because we added the events

pretty late in the game like right after your announcement for comic-con yeah and like looking at the schedule now a lot

of I think when I checked a little bit ago it was like just time pretty much

the only time on Sunday yeah what room is it again so everybody 41 140 141 you

know watching this but you're at the convention yeah I mean for us the reason

that those are sold out and the reason that without having that room is so important is because I was at San Diego comic-con and I saw how like how fierce and

fervent the collectors are for Funko's yeah and we all know everyone knows a Funko collector that everyone has a

Funko collector in their front group yep and so for us we want to really make sure that the games that we were able to

fly in for for sale at Gen Con we're going to people who are fans of the games and so we said that we don't want

to sell games in the commission hall we want to sell games in our demo room and

in order to purchase a game you have to get a ticket and that was really

important to our studio because you know in not just our studio but even Funko headquarters they were adamant about it

they're all we want gamers to get their hands on these hell of attendees reacted to that because this I mean that's not a typical way that a company will kind of

present their game a lot of times they just want as many people to buy it as possible they don't want to make you

kind of go through a demo experience for you how have people reacted to that so for us I have my shift yet in the

exhibition hall so I don't know how people are on this been actually pretty understanding and I think that a lot of

people will also appreciate what we're trying to do with that message and they're like you know what that actually makes sense rather than just like you

know it's that's a statement almost

exclusively collectibles watching the games and saying no this is for gamers yeah absolutely we want you to sit down

we want you to sit at our table we want to talk to you about the game we want to play it with you a couple times and then we want you to have that moment where

you're like whoa this is amazing and like this is not what I was expecting when I sat down at this table and I

hooked yeah and then they get really into them and they want to keep diving further into the process which one did

you get so much stuff here so we bought

the the Gotham the Batman starter set for the Golden Girls girls there's the four character sets

and the two character one mhm and then we're like we want the Harry Potter one too but our friend was there and so we're like what you buy of these I don't

get have us a reason to get together and play with the play try out all the different sets right we were at me held

back a little bit it was very hard not to just go hand get them and there's also a limit

there's the limit yeah you can buy one of the four packs so either a Harry Potter four pack or a DC 4 pack and then

you can buy two of the two packs yeah yeah so but I will say that as of yesterday these games are available for

pre-order online you know if you want you to get it right away as soon as it as soon as it you know hits the shelves

October 6 yeah please go to Target Walmart or games.com and then pre-order

the game there is it exclusive through those retailers it's not so we're partnering them we're partnered with

them for some of the pre-sales okay but really all its gonna be available everywhere on so I think that and that's

a good question because you know a lot of the games that we've we've come out with other publishers where sometimes we'll be like a target we'll get it

first or something get that so for this we were very adamant that it will be available everywhere and when

I say everywhere I mean everywhere at the same time so we wanted to make sure that everyone gets a chance to play it

and you know because you know Funko has such a rabid fan base it's gonna be

really cool to see this game in places that don't really care example a company

is showing that kind of dedication integrity I mean I can't speak to the

integrity of big companies but I will say that for us you know Funko and this is why are the relationship work out so

well and why we you know decided to get together is because our studio is really

passionate about creating like labors of love and I think I think truly Funko it's just elusive that yeah and yes

those you know those those those deals with the big box companies for where they're exclusive

those are very lucrative yeah yeah I know they're very lucrative and to pass up on

that to get it out to everybody is just admirable and we're gonna be announcing

our studio and we've conveyed this to the Funko headquarters and and they feel

the same way is very very strongly passionate about supporting flg yes we're gonna be launching organize play

which will have more information on that later this year that's so now I believe

don't quote me in this but I believe it the Alliance open house we'll have some other announcements about ways that we

hope to support flg yes because you know this is a game that we're hoping players are playing 10 years from now and we

know that if that's gonna be the case that it's gonna be playing at your local game stores getting together and

building and fostering those communities and so we're really we're really adamant about that you know so that's something

that that we talk about every single day and it's really near and dear to our hearts so I know you're on a tight

schedule is there any closing words you to say about the game anything about checking it out what booty yet yeah

we're in the booth 20:49 on the on the main floor so when you're in Gen Con check up with 2049 where you

have all the the games on display kind of in the middle towards the back in the

middle towards the back it's a great spot it's it's a wonderful spot yeah so we're giving high level demos there if

you cannot get into room 141 in here if you're watching this at 20 49 in the

exhibition hall or at 1:41 we also have limited and I mean like 1000 were

printed Gen Con exclusive shirts we did gennadiy the dragon is fully like popped

on the shirt 2019 Gen Con like I saw the shirts they're really cool so if you

purchase the games you get a chance to demo you persons games you'll get pins we have posters and what's the price

point on the games the price point for the large box is a $39.99 and then

$24.99 oh those are there so they fall well within the really affordable rap and they're all standalone playable so

even if you just buy a 2-pack yeah you can actually play that game as that is excellent

yeah well thank you so much for joining we're so glad to have you you should all be very excited about this game and

check it out to get a chance right you're not yet you're also not too far away from where we are right this time

next time you have a new product okay come on and I really think we've talked a lot about with Funko games about

having them come on table takes about having them Oh stream in general so hopefully we can work something out soon

are you kidding yes Franco wants to do a game night with us so there you go we

want to hold on to the open ones that we get to play with great thank you so much

have a great day see you - see ya 20:49 2049 2014 what year 2014 I was very

confused feeling a little far ahead yes those are our guests I don't even know I

mean do we even have any show I think we're still I think we still have more

than a show left we have more well

especially because Gen Con so like normally we would be making the agenda on you know Wednesday night Thursday

night we had time to read a lot of news this week about games I mean I know there is one unfortunate news that we

have been talking about tax man's back everybody tariffs that weren't gonna

happen guess what yeah Trump just

announced that he is taking back because China's not negotiating so he's adding the 10% tariff to all of

these products about three three hundred billion dollars worth of products that are imported from China so that affects

a lot of people who are of course Kickstarter's a lot of people who like gaming dice and all of those various

different things even printables as well for gaming books and materials so yet

that 10% increase is scheduled to happen next month

not anymore it was a probably thing and then it was I don't worry about a thing and now it's gonna happen so it's the

usual way things go and yeah the baby it appears the audience has some commentary they would like to add

grumble grumble grumble

it will make them more competitive well yeah it will make them more competitive

a sudden we're gonna jack up the price of paper assuming the rest of the market remember we talked about that paper

itself is going up even without this taxing or with the tariff increase it's just because paper mills that usually

would print books and cardstock are now switching to cardboard because yeah I

try not to out people

yeah in theory that's what tariffs are supposed to do yeah you make things more

expensive so the expensive local things are relatively not as expensive take it

from us I will encourage people to do the research to talk about it to contact your local official I mean yeah we went

from happy away like we've been like bouncing around emotional rollercoaster

oh man you owe me a coke wait I owe you a pelican there's a oh oh I'm giving it

to Emma I think like long story short is we don't know what will happen and there

will probably be some this is yeah on our part this is just speculation and

you know a sudden panic it's also it's also standard operating procedure for the current state of affairs yeah yeah

we are in a constant state of emotional flux yes so that especially those of us that are slightly liberal might be so so

that that curtain is coming down September 1st apparently right yes all

right got a month left guys all right so you're saying we haven't had a chance to read much news but we've been seeing

news like I've been seeing use in the making I feel like in the time we have left like I want to find like who's

gonna go next is I'm very excited about the things that I've been seeing on them we'll go ahead mention chaos chaos so

let's just go there yeah okay so let's start with this okay all of us yes have very very different experiences at

conventions yeah all right Banzai this

is your first Gen Con yes I'm a baby Gen Con yeah I'm you know you are obviously

out there with the games like you're you're seeing new stuff you're talking to the game designers you're running

logistics on everything yeah and I'm taking like a hundred and seventy selfies a day with fans well quite a

spectrum yeah we have really huge spectrum when I want to talk about our individual con experiences and just you

know compare and contrast I would that would be fun for me who wants to go first I made an effort specifically because I

wanted to be able to speak to some of the things now this won't be an overview like this is that what's happening at

Gen Con these are even the coolest things you have a few things that you had a chance so very pick and choose

here so one of the coolest things I've seen and people have asked me about my highlight at Gen Con so far is the

temporal oh yeah we talked about this on the show before and I've been very interested in going over there but have

not made it that yeah I was very excited because we talked about on the show just a little bit about our weekly show that

we do every week every week on TV is actually a streaming channel that we do

we have various different streams yeah table take that it's the most important

yeah so because the table takes the show is growing and includes in popularity and because we talked about it and I was

so excited about in the show actually reach to me through my website form and said

do you want to come and check out tomorrow at I know we've arrived oh oh

people are reaching out to us we're media they're like do you want a media so I'm like my media we're real life

people yes so it's really cool you can actually go over to the Seamon booth and

it's so if the booth looks great from

the outside I haven't been in pretty cool so you can see what's going on so

they're not really it's not media slots where they're keeping it behind closed curtains like they're making it's very

visible well they even really reach out to me again another last-minute thing they had a bunch of events that were

scheduled in the system to just allow attendees or anybody to really to reserve a spot to play around with it

for a little bit yeah those are also out now not standing if only I wonder only

we knew someone who knew someone oh

you're the person you're the human person so you got a chance to play with it I think in the board game hobby

there's a lot of mixed feelings about digital you know some people are very anti digital like don't let any they

don't play video games they don't want any computers I only want things that ruin the environment and for me like I

I'm gonna say I love video games I love board games I love all games role-playing games anything that was

actually kind of a pre-race job so and I'm very excited about the future and

the intersection and the number one thing for me and as a game designer as well is approachability mm-hmm so as

gamers probably most the people watching this show like you are fine to sit down with the rule book for half an hour read

the rule book beforehand watch a bunch of videos like wait wait Nick aren't you supposed to watch videos before you play

is that exactly that's what we do only Millennials watch videos but that's true that's true I've never done you're

supposed to read early you're supposed to read the rule book barefoot in the snow uphill both ways yep that's how we

do it well still don't know how to play that game of thrones game for that very reason right it's a thing now like if you don't

personally own the game if you're playing someone else's copy that will say like oh you're coming to my game night you should watch the video beforehand so you have that intro and

then I'll also teach it but it makes it just a little easier to jump into the game you don't do that kind of madness

no I'm just like oh ah bring some awesome plate do you have beer the point

for you coming over is to hang out with hang out like the game is incidental how

can you not yet there's some there's some I've been in some groups yeah where they're like okay so I'm gonna be a beer

and pretzel kind of girl if you know that refers to I don't know if you be really well I like yeah yeah yeah

casually somewhat casually yes um what you meant I also have food is mostly

cheesy poof's container and so like a lot of people are like you touch things

with your edge you don't have it's so funny like it's a sidebar right it's like we're playing the games and then

they're mad about you touching them anyway it's not a way to rein it in Emma

the game is zombicide evolutions is gonna be the first game released like a

variant of zombies right they're designing this game specifically for the temporal realtalk I've never played Tom

aside before in my life I was a little nervous again while watching the video I'm like maybe I should watch the video

are they gonna expect that I have played on the side so we got in there and the first thing you've all played zombicide

before right I'm like didn't you know just like I'll just go with it I want to

out myself he could start a relationship on a line like that and yet she did and succeeded

a ministry then I was also interested to see you know as someone who'd never played it before how will this experience and not having that being

like really disgusted me so we just jumped into it you know so they have the

tiles for those of you who haven't seen the the pictures online in the news about it it's a foldable

word that has the tech and the RFID is in it it has a hub that plugs to a tablet and then each player also has

their own device it's going to be Apple and Android so you can mix and match devices the main device can be a tablet

or it could be a PC okay plugs right into ya so you take your characters the

titles go on to the board you will place them on a little circle that is like where the activator is and that counts

as a move and see you move it you can tap it again to search the area you can place another piece down if

you're doing a attack okay so you move in here you move here you do the attack and came out to my turn I'm like okay I

move it I move it I can search in here okay tap it I got a new fancy chainsaw you know that I can cut down all the

zombies with and I was playing the game yeah you know there was the way that the

screen works is it will show you it has a little bit of helper text it's got a mini tutorial built in it's like okay

now move your piece and as cutscenes you get into the room and there's a lot of flavor this guy is like hanging by his

feet from the ceiling being attacked by the zombies and yet the rescue this person is like you see silver yes yeah

so it was very good it's very immersive zombicide isn't necessarily like I'm not

huge into zombies it's not something I would pick up myself but I had fun learning the game I didn't feel any

boundaries homicide I think is a pretty good example of how where table rule would help just because it is like it's

I wouldn't call it a simulation this game yeah but it's a it's a pretty like readily apparent how you interact with the game

yeah you are a character moving around a world doing things in the world and then fighting zombies so that matches totally

willing them given the name of the game yeah or you're just bad at the game yeah yeah but like you know you're moving

your character around like it makes pretty close sense I wonder how that accessibility will translate to games

that are a little more abstract yeah yeah I think for in they'll probably focus more around the

peace movement minigame of course we are C Mon you know the first games that so

what you're saying is this Kickstarter board game is going to be perfect for the Kickstarter board being and they do

have three total games that they're working on to release you know with the

Kickstarter just around that time they do they give any details on those or they just say that they have they said

they had three the only one they've announced is the zombicide evolution ones and they're doing all the

development now for the software and for the tech in the game design but in the future so the big exciting thing is when

people are thinking about is a console they specifically use the word console for it and the thing people like oh you

know are people getting into this is there gonna be enough content apparently they've been flooded with pitch meetings

people are pitching them Wow so the industry is so excited that they're come they're like I want to do something so

they have more than enough things and in the beginning that will do it but their plans in the future are to make it make

an API make it easy for people to design their own games for this console mm-hmm very cool yeah yeah it sounded kind of

weird at first but the fact that you're so excited about it yeah it makes me excited about open to offers so what

you're saying is you're gonna have a pitch for them yeah what yeah they just pitched tabor two takes we could all get little

figures for ourselves oh good pile did we get piled it in the agenda and need to sort it out and then

regurgitate it I would love to be a figurine please and I think the biggest

thing is a lot of the triggers a lot of the upkeep for a game and this is the

thing and saying like my my niece and nephew who are like 12 years old they could play this like my non gamer in-laws could

play this like my Maron's could probably play this because it takes care of that upkeep and like the maintenance stuff so

you have like your house so the upkeep phase the maintenance phase but it doesn't keep tear the untap phase really

it's irrelevant to the joke that I attempt to make that you then destroyed

nerdy you know lots of stuff just like

how many zombies come in where they come in tracking your health and all those little things you know which a lot of

gamers love you know they like doing that doing that crap that's part of the reason they don't play a lot of board

games remembering like how much helps did I have tracker you got a tracker

yeah I like yeah you gonna do the stuff you

do gonna physically put this on you look at the thing there they want to be mass

they want to eventually go to mass they want to get more people and to me I think I'm I'm all for making it more

accessible but I think like personally for me as a gamer the thing I'm most interested in is it may be fulfilling

the promise that we've seen of other electronic crossovers like we talked about golem Arcana and stuff like that

and like ones that have attempted and failed yeah but the promise has always been allowing

a more complicated system or a more rich system without increasing the

complication that the players have to play with so like I am comfortable with a certain amount of complication at the board I'm happy to do that that's

probably part of why I'm playing the game yeah but you know this allows the

game behind that to be much bigger and deeper and perhaps you know do more without increasing the load on me even

if I'm at a higher like then you know a starting or or or you

know non-gamer player yeah so hopefully it's gonna be able to kind of hit both ends of that spectrum yeah I think so

and it's really gonna it's gonna depend entirely on what games people make for it yeah so like you know this is like

discovering dice like dice are sweet I wonder what people are gonna do with them and hopefully we'll get a whole

range of ridiculous things yeah I think they were very candidate this show to

you and like can I just talk about all this yes anything we say here is free free to say so price point they're

saying at the hundred to $120 and that's for the system you still have to buy the games on top of that that are gonna be

about the same price as a game would be does it come with a game not for that

Franco so the you will have to buy the zombicide at like the forty fifty whatever price point it is based on how

consoles work I suspect that we'll have like you buy the kind then you get an extra controller a game and then you buy

a package with it and etc etc and that

was the one thing it did come with the game but they were saying that they were going to be a which ones dropped me

that's the one where you put the cards in and it makes the sound okay yeah I was thinking it was something you put in your water to flavor it it's brand new

flavor in your ear yeah I think and

that's just start to so like imagine like as tech gets cheaper like the able

to well once you get the mass production of yeah well what is that theory that

the guys still alive who's like really into futurism that the the path of technology as it is right now is going

to outpace itself so like you can walk out of the store and have an outdated phone there yeah I think that's right

now we're almost there we're we're almost to the future oh gosh darn it to the future it's the future is now the

future is then I'm gonna help you with this okay here we go we got this everybody all right no no

nope you almost got me I did but what I'm gonna say is do you want to let's

let's do a ridiculous take how long until those whiz kids pre-painted and

unpainted minis are built in with the table ooh RFID six years six years

that's Mike a six year we got a six years can we get a seven can we get a two five I feel like you're just trying

to do Price is Right rules I'm gonna say with like 3d printing and stuff right

now I'm gonna give it like careers in 3d printing is absolutely there I'm more

thinking about like hey let's make sure all of our well okay but I mean I'm

saying sooner because I went on the show floor and I saw some things on the show flow well why don't we that transition

what it is okay so this is a happy first

Gen Con do you kind of Jenkins man on the street since you got here so you've

been around basically twelve hours a day just well not twelve hours just like ten

yes you are but it's been fun I think I've been going around by the way for a

first-time experience going around with the Peter Atkins Atkinson yeah yeah that's pretty cool that's exactly the

hey and he's like hey you want to just go anywhere I'm like some reason they

give that guy like access to anywhere he wants to go it's all shelves the place there was a reason when Peter texted me

like hey Derrick I've got a plan I was like okay Peter that sounds great and then I was like Lauren please keep up like I need to know what's happening be

prepared to intervene we had a good time we don't apparently now I'm going to

officiate weddings here at Gen Con with him and it would be LARPing weddings you

are like the luckiest girl in the whole world so I have to say it was actually really funny watching your stream

because a couple of a is beginning one of your streams I could see in the background

people violating rules and then I could just call the local HQ and deploy the team and see the rule fixed in the NOC

yes I love this but it was also you were

going around the Peter and you're like where's Hobie I'm like a big magic sign

it's hanging from the sea very distracted you not see how like

sidequest we win oh yeah we win side quest side quest I got okay so like in the interview like I'm not like this is

my first time so I'm jumping and trying to get everything like kind of speed running I'm gonna warn you right now

it's not gonna work oh my god the main like half of the main area and the

stadium that's all I've covered there's so much yeah so much and then like one of the big things like there's the

LARPing area there's the laser tag and then there's also like a kid area so if you're like like I really do like so if

you're looking for kids to buy no no but I don't it is it's great that like you

know how Gen Con is they have things for everyone so even if you're a parent you know and if you want to be like one like

there I've seen like historical battles like it depends on what level you want to be there's always somebody there and

it's not just about like you know being like oh this is only my group my group

oh there's a lot of there generally people have been super nice yeah people

come to Gen Con to play games yes and usually they're playing a game that they love yes which usually means that they

want to share that with other people yeah so a lot of times people are pretty open and welcoming to getting new new

folks in teaching them the game getting them acclimated getting them through it because they want more people to enjoy

the thing that they enjoy and for those of us less socially inclined this is this is where we see our friends yeah

yeah you know I went had a lunch with a guy that I live you know maybe a half an hour away from yep did I work with you

know on the regular and I never get to hang out with them unless we're at Gen Con yep the number of the number of

people that it's like great halfway across the country together from the same place so now we can actually

see each other and Jen Kyle's just got kind of I mean it's obviously it's family friendly but it has over the

years you know between all the people who've come for you know since the beginning of time I guess back in the

Milwaukee days yep which I success in the early early 1900s but we're in what

the 51st year of Gen Con at this point a

lot longer than you've been around it's a family yeah it really is people

kind of have like rogue friendliness - it's not just that they'll invite you or

like allow you into their game we were our first year we bought machi Koro and we sat down in the hall we're looking at

this and this was kind of my intro to gaming - this was before I really had like read a lot of rules and played a lot games and we're kind of sitting

there like this it was just what I like do you want me to teach you that game I know how to play it like what just

random encounter in that case yes but hold on what's your response can I watch a video first yes do you want money do

you want thing exchange is like I just want you see you don't seem like you you just you don't look like you've watched

the video yes you look confused and scared and I want to help you with that

and that's how we used to learn how to play game yeah are you a little randomly approached I can just imagine some of

you like oh you want to learn how to play that game yes please here's the QR code watch the video and then what so this is your first

so I guess for the characterize it tell us some of the things that you saw oh my

gosh it's overwhelming and I just the one thing by the way hey if you want to

get into games definitely first day it comes out just sign up for everything cuz man those things fill up yes they do

I was thinking about I had a free time coming up on Sunday and I was thinking about signing up for some things but everything I want to do is I definitely

feel that we could find something new there's still stuff with tickets like it's one of those things of yes a lot of

things fill up but there's there's also so many things that have space yeah so Gen Con is very much a if you are coming

to Gen Con with one particular specific thing in mind and there's the only thing you want to do separately sign up early

but also like you are setting yourself up for frustration perhaps whatever it

but like if you are just kind of open to trying something different then you will

not stop finding things to occupy your time oh no I I have been I've been wandering

I I have bought many generic tickets and I have said hello questioner I have the monies may I join your group and it has

been successful so what have you played I actually did a werewolf game that was

the 1i I had a lot fun gosh-darned the werewolf one I knew while the Ouija was villain hideout my its waluigi yeah I

know he's always a villain yeah I knew it but they're like are you just judging this person cuz their waluigi I'm like I

know you're the werewolf you son of them

but yeah that was fun and then I also I also did a lot of like making stuff cuz

I have a worbla class yeah as well because and it's just yeah a worbla worbla it's like tell us about worbla so

I've never worked with animal so it's more of like a UH like you know how easy

a foam is foam worbla is like a very hard plastic but still flexible

yeah something kind of thing you'd make like armor armor Adam yeah okay yeah I have a link cosplay a medieval link

cosplay that I'm gonna be working on it some mario samurai by the waist making a historically accurate samurai costume is

painting not - I think that's why they stopped doing it in Japan yeah and then it yeah it's it was all so you can't

really sit down you have to have like a certain like pirate had like there's a reason why they're like a bit your seen

the crew so if there's a reason they have that little like action stool and I

decided to do this at like Emerald City Comicon and I was like yeah it'll be great and then I was like oh yeah I

loved playing D&D forever yeah I kept putting on armor and then put any of

those folks in a suit of armor it's like yeah go do go do anything I don't know

have you ever like tried to like one of these I would ask that would be really cool cuz there is a LARPing area maybe

you should contact the people that actually do the like fighting fighting you know we we've we've had we've had

live sword demonstrations to check in on the past no no but I mean there's a there's a group that does or you know

right okay yeah like we've had stuff like that in the past I want to see war

well okay I mean that's Gloria Becky Banzai you come on nice and innocent you

leave wanting to murder you got it come for the inclusion stay for the blood to

prevent especially the rush no in the morning you're like we want to have a

nice rush not oh yeah the rush was fun the release seen on video man watch from the inside

I've got a video it's pretty cool oh my goodness but how it's just like oh my god there's so many people I think this

morning they had the camera on the inside - I'm watching because our booth

is like you know right by the front door so I can watch everybody come in all at once and it's the firehose strong like

if I wasn't like safely behind my cardboard table I would feel so in danger

I know but I was saying that was one of the lake a first-time experience that's super fun to watch yeah I'd make sure I

watch it every year because it's my favorite part so your experience yeah it's been like

neat new games and new things that you've been trying out yes bonsais experience has been oh my god overload

what about you well and this isn't necessarily common knowledge but the

company that I'm with I've made some movies with and so I have the unique perspective that I get treated like a

celebrity while I'm here because we have you know lots and lots of fans and they you know like be sign autographs a lot

like my hand hurts from all the autographs so sorry for you also people

keep wanting to take their picture with no no it's like I don't know I get

treated like a rock star for a whole week and it's fun I like it I mean I can't necessarily like go anywhere by

myself which is okay because I hate being alone on the other hand I'm always so exhausted by the time I don't want to

talk to anybody for a week after I get home but this week is like this is okay that's right I can be a social human

being and look and I get to like I put on this whole I have a problem with crowds a lot of people don't know this

because I'm fine here because I've learned to kind of do this character you

do know about the quiet room right yeah the past couple years we've had a quiet

room in 211 okay and that is so 211

because I don't know if you it's near the second mark but remember you because you were probably running around when

you go they like the into Hall D for the event hall yeah kind of the big crossroads Hall go up the escalators

that go over the food court that's right there so like if people need to take a break from a crowd like if they don't

have a character they've developed and you can hop up to the quiet room and just kind of decompress for a few

minutes I've been doing this for you fifteen years now yeah yeah and that

character has kind of gone away over the over time you know like the first couple of years like I couldn't deal with the people so I would just show with my

pajamas you know and be the guy in pajamas pajamas but you know it's it's a

lot of the same fans plus a lot of the new ones so I recognize faces now and it seems like it's so much more home than

it used to be so it's not as overwhelming for me as it was you know 15 years ago so I I don't have a pajama

day on Saturday anymore cuz I'm meeting so new games yeah overwhelming yes

coming home coming home and then putting on like the biggest show that I do all

year we're doing you know we're playing to the big room thousand people were almost sold out again I said to

reschedule your rehearsal because move table takes up right and that I mean and

when you're dealing I'm here with a team you know I'm here with my seven cast members and four crew members and

producers and stuff like that so we're it's the only time of the year that I allow group texts to enter my phone oh

because we're all coordinating Andry coordinating and schedules talks I've got a movie seven and then tonight I get

to like go and see a thousand of my best friends and put on a show for them and

and hang out and have them come up and play monster and that's that's gonna be streamed yes so perhaps you should

mention the time and the channel will be on yeah it's gonna be it's gonna be on the gen con' channel Gen Con main stage

Gen Con main stage and of course it's probably gonna be we're gonna have it on the fantasy Network after that YouTube

following that so yeah definitely check that out that's a lot of fun I put a lot of work into it at what time is it it's

7:00 p.m. tonight and morrow morning at 11 a.m. there's lots of channels going around

three different channels so if you guys want to watch it it's twitch.tv slash team slash Gen Con so yeah after

tomorrow morning I just get to do regular Gen Con stuff which means I work the booth you know six hours a day and

only it's a it's fun it is kind of relaxing and I get to see all my friends you know

like the nice thing about my company is that I work with all the people I love you know like my my wife is part of the

company now you know but I think that's one of the one of the things that keeps a lot of people in the gaming industry

is it's not usually the fame and fortune yeah it's usually a combination of the

projects you're working on and the people you're working with yeah like we have the we have the best fans in the world but I'm never gonna be a rich man

because of it I just love what I do as long as they let me as long as they let

me make stuff and wear your pajamas when you really need to and wear my pigeon and they're very understanding about

that plus they just think I'm cosplaying stuff what is this oh yeah I got some

toys yeah yeah so we're in the show-and-tell phase let's do it well we

still go we're still gonna talk about what Derek oh yeah then we'll go to show and sure well so Derek's experience of

the show is arrived on Sunday have four days of meetings and emergencies and

then treat putting out fires yep and then you know yeah is just you know

things have to get fixed people a lot of people were gonna arrive Tuesday or Wednesday figure out that their space

isn't set up the way it was something's wrong it wasn't delivered there was miscommunications where's my pallet yep

yep so there's a whole lot of that that I have to deal with all the way through Thursday and then Thursday night ish

Friday Saturday or it's oh it's weird like my curve of the show is the reverse of most attendees and then I'm super

busy right off the bat and then I can kind of just coast through a little bit everything mine is very similar a little

okay and then Sunday you have to kind of wrap everything up what is your job so

I'm in charge of almost all of the games at the show basically so if it's a game

then it went through my desk if it's streaming I was in charge of it so that means that of the 21,000 something

events I want to say like eighteen nineteen thousand of them kind of went through me

I thought I had a lot to do with like we're sponsoring the Film Festival this year and we're doing all these games and

we're doing the shows but compared to you I literally knew almost nothing I

mean there's like what I think fifteen employees at GenCon and then I want to

say we have a hundred and fifty like event team members who come out for the

show and some like that you know and they're the people who put on the show or like I guess the the better way to phrase it is they're the people who kind

of put together the infrastructure they execute that plan that will mean they're the people who build the house in which

all the exhibitors and event organizers and attendees make gen con' happen

because like that's the other perspective is like I don't think that we can claim that we make Gen Con what

it is no we make we make the stage and then everybody else shows up and like

you know people are not like men I love Gen Con staff they're like yeah they think they come they come to the show in

their life say that almost every yeah they're like man I love this game I

played at Gen Con you know and I'm like we gave the space for it like we set it up but we're not the people there who

are running the individual tables making the memories for people so what's one of

you share yeah okay so where are we at the show in telophase show and tell fade is everybody brought stuff it we doing

we still have a bunch of headlines but we'll run through those but show and

tell yeah so I was you know I was thinking there was gonna be a lot of like people and brought a lot of board

games and stuff and I didn't want to take up much space plus I don't have a lot of time to go look around the exhibition hall I just don't you know

I'm stuck in one corner of it I know the forest show before the show you literally told me he'll be in the exhibit hall so often already and I went

around before it was open for a relationship on a lie no no no I did

and you're not gonna let me finish okay but this year I went and I got to do

that instead of doing that on Sunday night like I usually end up having to do it I went and did it you know before we

opened first I would we were after he's finished setting up the booth on Wednesday I'm like okay what's where

where am I gonna go and then Thursday in the morning we would you know we went down and looked at the things we wanted

to look at and then I realized like I didn't really grab anything to bring on the show like everybody knows I like the

riff stuff so it's like about a bunch of that you know I got yeah the worst rip

oh by the way you should pat me on the back just for not saying that while our guests were here because have you tried

riffs when they were talking about Funko versus they're like saying oh you can do this I almost was like well maybe you

just need to pitch the funk overstable two riffs crossover so I decided I

wanted to bring it because we've got all these we've got a lot of these bigger game companies and all of you guys know about all these bigger game companies

you know everything there is to know about them because you know who the designers are I don't know any of that stuff yeah okay

I never have and I'd never pretended to you know I know guys who write role-playing games and know guys or make

fantasy novels and I know guys who draw comic books and I went to go see one of my friends who trust comic books and

he's just started a dice company recently in the last it is called Black

Oak workshop and they make these beautiful custom dice yeah they are

really there they're like gorgeous look at this one's called yeah that's called like dracolich or

something like that I have a problem I heard you spit you want to know how much I spend no no no go spend more please

support our exhibitors yeah yeah and 16:13 and I know there is literally a

million dice booths you can go to a chess expose and I mean there's what like nine or ten of them it doesn't there's at least two GenCon specific but

just like your progression as a dice I don't use the word addict but aficionado

that's nice appreciate you start out you're like oh these dice are cool these

guys are cool but after a couple of years your skin fridge likes three or four hundred dice yeah and you need to

start looking into the nooks and crannies for like the weirder dice like the foodie days all right you like I

started in the nooks and crannies did you know there is like dice specific for different like like classes you played

so like it has like lizards this and this company actually hikes dice exactly like that that yeah they've got ones

with little ray guns on I mean ones with arrows this one I specifically brought this is their gunslinger dices that

shows basically the chamber of a revolver yeah and we've got these cool

ones with skulls on them that are they're not out yet that are coming out they're really really neat but Jolly

Blackburn who writes the knights of the dinner-table comic and I some people

might have heard of yes some people might have heard of it if you've ever read a dragon magazine or benig phantom gaming I'm their booth 11:29 actually

they're at ba they're with Kinser and company who does hack master at nights the dinner table and kingdoms of

calamari I think sounds right wait Alomari calamari calamari sounds like a

board game believe that was not meant to be offensive yeah

now that you mention it though if you mention it - jelly black we're in the probably or four homes of calamari or

hopefully yeah we already made that joke like five times bring out those strips so yeah they've got this dice company

and they're making all sorts of cool things I just brought what I could grab is which I spectrum that's plus cool custom dice bags

stranger things stranger things themed like random things they've got a bunch

of selection of dice bags but yeah go over and check out the booth if you're here if not check them out online

anybody donate these are a few of my stranger things joke nobody I've just written that song in my

head well sing it for you next week thank you musical interlude and our

black oak workshop no you brought your experience experience if you wanted me

to bring I knew Derek is gonna bring the good stuff and he's bigger than all your

stuff which our Twitter can help me the chat can help me I need to find a

specific stuffed animal I every every time I try to look for the most of that

Conn stuffed animal especially because I'm in a new state I have a hoarding collection of stuffed animals so I need

a specific gen con' plushie like it you

need a plushie specific gen con' or just a pushy that you can buy a Gen Con that you can buy a Gen Con that most some

places we talked about that so I thought about that so you're basically what you want is you want a plushie that most

embodies Gen Con yes I just buy an AV every year but also I bought a lot of stuff from the Gen Con booth because hey

by the way your orange scheme is great I don't know if you know my favorite color it's boring Orange perhaps something

orange no no no it doesn't have what I mean I want to well I mean I think the

plushie is the squishable like the huge round fat squishables yeah those are usually my bets especially the one that

looks real dumb and it's not like kawaii

like cats and stuff but I want to think it's like oh yeah my dealer haul is just

full of amazing stuff all the stuff is good stuff the stuff that I brought is

like basically yesterday and about 5 p.m. right for the exhibit hall closed I

went and tried to execute on my relatively short shopping list yes sadly I could not get to the booth in time to

get the Delta Green Stamps because they were selling like Delta green like eyes-only stamps and stuff like that I

wanted to get that but they sold out like in 15 minutes I don't feel so bad

yeah but like I was too busy Thursday morning you could have also done the hint in hello oh I got that bird game

when I got here bird game they sold out you out what was it a lap like a minute

and a half it was they brought 600 copies with them okay every 17 seconds

they sold the first like hundred twenty-five before the dealer Hall opened just from I gave it to move will

you give it to our mother-in-law okay and if she needs a game she could play

it was like getting games for people with themes oh my god they were so nice

that's a wonderful booth if you do even though they're sold out go and talk to them they're wonderful people yes so the the other thing I tried to

get that was sold out was the cyberpunk QuickStart oh yeah that's sold out there

I think they're giving a certain amount each day yeah so maybe I can find us

today I don't know yeah I asked my wife to pick it up if she was in exhibit hall it's 1141 I asked her to get it for me

while she was in the exhibit hall with the camera I don't know if she remembered find out you didn't watch cuz we were on no we were here

so the things I was able to pick up is I got a travel case for gravel from broken

token funny I was talking to Cory young last night who's the designer grab well

and he just has had the game he's just like at the nerd night last night he's like look at this isn't so cool oh my

god what's gravel so gravel is a really cool card game where like you are these

ships trying to escape a black hole that looks a little bit like a circular cribbage board to me it is that's

awesome so like normally the game is like played on a much larger board and you got little minis and stuff like that and you

draft these cards that allow you to kind of move towards or away the nearest mass

object I've never seen them do you mind

ever see the full size but I love the travel one already yeah go ahead well

the thing is it has to be assembled it's a broken token token I thought it was

already assembled in there know if you crack it open it doesn't have the game in it either so you crack it open and

here's the assembly instructions here are the sheets that you're gonna have to

you know punch out and then you glue them together also if you saw that giant

dice tower thing with the gears it's got a little cage jadi dice yeah I think he worked on that as well and they just

have some just beautiful amazing accessories for your I'm a big fan of

broken token stuff because like I'm basically the kind of person who's like look if you love if you love a game you

know if you've got a game watch the video no okay then you know get the stuff to pack the

game or to pack the game way better cuz it's gonna deploy faster what mmm

so broken broken token basically makes these kinds of accessories yeah they make inserts that you put into a box

Wow there we go so it's a company like they make they make inserts we put into the to replace

the insert that comes with the game to sort things better they also make if they make a couple replacement boxes

things that I need but don't use no so for now you can use them so basically it allows you to not just have a cardboard

box full of baggies yeah so I'm a big fan and I really love grav well but we

never really play it and I'm thinking that maybe if we get a so two of the

RPGs are picked up or nice black agent solo ops

I've never played nice black Asian remember we talked to yeah we've talked about it yeah I think you know so we

talked sorry I watched about it yeah so you know this is the vehm pyramid yep

you were the spy who find out that vampires are real and this is the one on one RPG version yeah and cars kill

vampires in my unit and it's a solo ops what does that mean it means just one player one GM that's so cool

there's not enough games out there like that you really need to check out consumer confidential yes that's where this came from but that was neat because

it gave you three specific characters cities scenarios everything seems to be

a little meteor yep so then first solo

game they make it a smaller book you know no oh that's

oh you mean their starter set yeah I hear that is great well the new starter

set from 4 D and B is also a one-on-one adventure your good stuff about that but

I have to play sure sure so then the other thing book is a carbon-fibre yes I know beautiful girl

pages oh my gosh yeah like so they have got a couple versions of generation 6

there's the normal version there's the dumb as hell but I love it carbon fiber cover I always want to thank you so much

for buying this for me Derek that was treasure it always don't worry I'll keep it as a space of honor on my show for you okay thanks so

there's that one's like a hundred dollars and then there's a 200 dollar version that has a slightly alternate cover and goes in a slip case of carbon

fiber too but it also gets you dinner so so like when I went yesterday they I

think they were down to like 10 copies of the books no they they had more to

stock but it was like that day they had burned through their whole pile it's a

beautiful book and I inside yet so can i crack it open I cannot buy this book but

I think our show is not great for that like literally I am here to get you guys to spend money so I can feel better

about the money the nice part is you do pay us for that yes but not enough to buy this book yep yeah so where work is

gorgeous if you get a chance I'm just sure okay to get a load of that if you can

it's pretty epic it looks great it's maybe the best art we've ever seen in the Shadowrun book so so those were the

those were some of them like the must buys that I got and I figured that this would go nice on camera and his vision

it is so beautiful very very kind of you

so that was my show-and-tell do we want to try to cover cover a couple s so I

think maybe the first one to cover or the big one to hit is fantasy flights keynote Wednesday I had a ton of news in

it yeah and B is available on the video on demand on the Gen Con TV channel so

you should go watch so after you done here let's talk about it you can go watch them actually do it yeah yeah

you're watching the video first so new stuff keyboards obviously new key for

the treasure now it's new houses I think they announce new houses new mechanics I think the houses are one of the biggest

things because going into something like if you have any experience with magic like magic has been the same five colors

forever they're kind of locked they lock that themselves into that in the beginning the camera they changed at this point so it's cool to see four key

Forge they're really not holding anything sacred they have the saurian

saurian republic which is dinosaurs in case been guess one likes or it's rex or

whatever is their grand leaders those are they're running out of ideas there and then the Star Alliance which is

space people space people it was stopped from this from not alien space people

thanks people well some aliens some people all living together in harmony alien is really just a term that

is relative to the speaker but space people was absolutely hearing a lot of blah blah blah one shared

I hope you know that but you do and it's

just so funny to me they're actually rotating out two of the houses at least for this set so Mars and sanctum you

don't even get to play those anymore yes so you can always play like their idea their concepts for the game is you can

always play any old sets with any new set you can crack the first pack from

this first set you can crack a pack from the third deck the decorating like you mean cuz key Forge is weird

yeah there's no packs you're just cracking a deck you open up the deck and you just like play then against each other and they really want that to

continue it's a very lofty goal with like saying power will never creep and

in a set but for now you can very much play these against each other so you can can still play the old houses what I

think from having played key Forge is I think they came into it they didn't know

exactly what the game was going to be not to say these houses won't come back but I think they've made learnings from

it especially with the Mars Mars was always kind of a weird house they could they weren't sure exactly what was doing of course not all of the houses were

kind of weird yeah I think George is just weird yeah mechanically speaking from people who are super into it like

oh I like this one like this is doing and Mars was kind of off in the corner and never really came together so I think it's kind of cool they might

reimagine their I think they did specifically say that those houses would be back yeah they were trying to

reassure fans of their weird houses yeah the weird mix of the weird game of the weird house I said don't worry about it

it'll come back yes it's cool to see

some new mechanics we're gonna have some new ways to play one of the most interesting thing I coming into all the

specifics of it but there's ways to put more amber on to the characters in the game so it does seem like they're

thinking a little bit about speeding things up like making sure that the game continues to flow instead of getting

stuck but without breaking that balance so that they were going for at the very beginning so the two houses are gone is

there a story reason for that do you know just a plague of both their houses need

a store of story reason I think I think so I think that I mean I think that just shows good game doesn't know but like

like keyboard is just such a weird eclectic mix Marvel right for your

smaller movies like sometimes or like oh my gosh the world is on fire again we're stores like Thor is on leave for I had a

knee injury you knows on the bench for this time so you kind of hand wave a little bit to make sure this well so in

addition to more key Forge they also talked about more Arkham Horror there's

what Arkham Horror last hour I think is what it's called do we did I don't I didn't have a chance to watch the whole

thing do they go into what do you tell Matt do you know pretty I think it's a

new game I think it was a for when I was able to glance at like a new cooperative

game I think one wonderful players but combat focused so I I'm kind of wonder

if it's gonna be a Kickstarter board game kind of thing yeah you know where you're exploring a board fighting

monsters that kind of thing so they also announced Genesis vault well they did a

turn for it but it's it's the the DMS guild model for the Genesis system same

is the same way that a storyteller is involved and you know some a lot of programs have been working with drive

through RPG to allow people to publish for a system or a setting in it you know

through drive through everything then share the revenue so they announced for Genesis and specifically of interest to

me includes the Android setting so launched yesterday okay the Android

setting is the one that used to be something else right they used it for netrunner netrunner new Angeles Android

the board game mainframe like there's a couple different games from it was from the

netrunner venture okay yeah that's why that's why I was familiar yeah so that you're

allowed to make you know role-playing game books adventures scenario books like content for the Android setting for

Terron off I think is their fantasy setting okay holy in the Genesis system

so I'm really interested to see how that's gonna go and what's that called I don't remember

foundry Genesis foundry Genesis foundry I actually want to write that down

that's the big new game announcement yeah so fantasy flight of course is the only company that can do lcg's because

they have a trademark on the living card game yes so now they have the new one themed in marble I was talking to Brad

Andrus who's one of the key forged developers worst for fantasy flight and the way he described it as a more

approachable card game which i think is really cool because as like I definitely want to try comfortable like

approachable I do like I think things that the reason I never got to get into hell 5 are though is a slight lack of

approachability with the fan base yes for l5 are for a lot of these games

there's history behind them yeah yes it's very intense is a very high barrier

to entry to get into them so it sounds like this one is going to be a little less complex than what's going on but

still have that cooperative living card game so you had a long talk with him yesterday morning I think no I just

bumped into it oh okay well then somebody did because I'm pretty sure we had a long sequence in the studio with

an interview about the Marvel LCG so so if people want more we have the video on

demand of the fan of Fantasy Flight keynote from Wednesday ok and then in

Gen Con studio we should have the video on demand of the particular interview that went over some more details

so I might actually get that card game mm-hmm I'm sure a lot of people are

gonna get that guy I mean I understand the property already the IP is not weird or foreign to me in any way I can

I don't have to read 27 splat books to get the idea of what the story's about I don't have to worry about weird

culturally-appropriate of houses I can instead play superheroes which is just

my so we've got a we've got a few minutes left why don't we run through a bunch of different the game

announcements yeah we don't my booth

shift starts in a minute we don't have a whole lot of details in a lot of these yeah but we have quirky circuits which

somebody added the notes of it's the mind but you play as a Roomba yes I played last night I wasn't too sure

about it but it was cute with the minis I didn't know anything about the gameplay but it is you have the cards in

your hand of like if you move forward how many if you turn and you can only have a little bit of information and

then you're working cooperatively to do your path oh does reenact the Roomba thing where you go into a corner and you

turn and look cool and frustrating you

get to have a cat right on top of you and that's picture taken the cat rides on the Roomba and then messes you up so

you're the Roomba yeah and the cats like messing up here so that's a real thing I didn't just that's a part of the game I

was really just being the d-bag right there they matched you in met you

C Mon announced a cyberpunk car game a cyberpunk of the property yeah they're

doing a card game based on that a lot of people freaked out that it was not the rebirth of netrunner

which would have warmed my heart but this looks like this is a new game when you say a lot of people do you mean you a little bit maybe okay real talked it

looks like it's a card game that is not not a lot of details but doesn't they didn't announce it as an LC g or

collectible game or anything like that so it might just be like a game kind of experience okay so that's

interesting Warhammer Games Workshop announced

aeronáutica Imperialis which is basically like an air combat fighter jet

game set in the Warhammer 40k universe okay they had Warhammer underworlds beasts grave and you ready Oh a new

blood ball team also it's an actual I'm

happy that we have a stream see how long we can maintain mentioning riffs and blood have you tried riffs so there's

also a new more Clank there's a Clank acquisitions incorporated in version

coming out yeah I think they did an expansion or it was a bargain question but anyway like they've done something

but now there's a full acquisition or a kink clink coming out there's also Clank Legacy coming out

with some details yes of course there's a legacy version coming out upper deck

just talked about the now that's what you upward I protect the card company I

was thinking no upper deck has a new encounters for double-oh-seven oh yes

yes James Bond encounters yeah and they have up they have a booth in the exhibition hall and it's rad because

it's got the he's got the circular doorway so you can stand it and get your picture taken while you're pretending to hold a gun yeah and hum the music

apparently there's two more Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle games coming yeah as well there should be there's popular properties in the world

and now adults are entity Ninja Turtles because we all found them when we were

five yeah jasio Games is releasing a whole new card game system apparently and the

property that's supporting it as this first roll out is my hero academia

that is they have ticketed games available in the exhibit hall with or in the event okay I'm supplied overlay I

have $40 worth of generics just in case I want to go ghost go sign up for the

tournament let us know how it goes there's a bunch of them running all weekend okay so yes so yes I will do

that yep there's also whiz kids this might be really exciting for you it is I are I

rented it ahead of time I'm Noah whiskas is really seeing unpainted transformers

no out yet they are leasing them they haven't released them you can only buy

the stuff you see a couple of couple more things fog of low fog of love is

leaving Walmart it's gonna be non-exclusive now we can uh we can buy it in real places I've not that Walmart

using the great place it exists no has anybody played Fargo wolf no okay you can rely at Walmart I almost feel like

we should actually pull a it on this try because really we know just and finally

this is a topic I'm pretty sure that we're gonna have to dig into an extreme detail Oh but apparently watch see is be

doing really big changes to how magic is judged like the details are coming up

very slowly and very weirdly yeah let's make sure we dig into that yeah yep so there's apparently a lot of changes

coming to that uh we'll investigate that yeah if you want to know if those are you keep you keep tuned the table takes

every week and we will fill you in what time it's gonna be at all eleven on what

day Friday on what channel I feel like I'm being quizzed

you guys I I think that we are out of time we are group coming in and we want

to make sure that they have plenty of time to set up so that is it for table tanks for this Friday live from Gen Con

we are so happy to be here if you see us at the con we will probably be around and really busy yeah I got to go get to

the booth so I'll be had for the next two hours over a booth 100 that's where I'm gonna be alright so she'll be on the

stream later yeah you'll be in the booth and then you'll be on the gin sovereign state you are gonna be in the studio at

some point and I will be running around trying to keep things from lighting on fire right or putting them out if they

do is that when I'm on I should just light all the fires and yes remember

that while you're on the stream I can see where you are and I know how to find you so yeah that's it for table takes I

like to thank our guests ha Chris and Lindsey for coming on and show us what they're all about today we will see you

next week and have a great con thank you [Applause]

you








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